WarmPepsi

iTrader: (35)

i'm with these guys, slow in, fast out.

you're coming in hot, otherwise you'd have no issue.

You're not timin yourself correctly, and if you don't see the car in front of you, when entering the corner... you're not looking far enough ahead.

x838nwy

That's all well and good, but it doesn't work all the time. For example, the guy in front misses a gear, or it's a blind corner or someone pulls out in front of you etc... I mean it's a bit like saying if you keep a suitable gap, you'll never rear-end anybody...

I understand your point that ideally you shouldn't have to do it, but in the real world, you do every now and again.

WarmPepsi

iTrader: (35)

..the guy in front misses a gear. If you're not on his *** in the braking zone, you simply don't get on the gas.

and its exactly like saying if you keep a gap, you'll never hit them. If you know you're gonna pass them, then getting up on them and late apexing it a little more will give you a cleaner line to pass.

if someone pulls out in front, and you're turning at any limit, you're screwed. you need to straighten it up and put down the brakes HARD.


What i'm saying is that you're planning for the 1% of the time, that really shouldn't ever happen. People are throwing suggestions at you that will throw your setup outta whack for the other 99% of the time, to try and counter this one.

Thats all. take care.

x838nwy

I don't think the discussion here is limited to the track. So, on normal roads, things are less predictable, very much like the guy pulling out in front of you sort of thing. I know it doesn't happen everyday, but when it does happen you want the car to be as predictable as possible. Also there are times when you go in to corners a little fast, specially on unfamilar roads... I again, pretty rare, but if the car's doing something strage when it happens it's a sign that something is wrong and should be solved....

anyway it's 2006 and i'm drunk, and was e-mailing the boys that i'm first to enter 2006.... so anyway... you have no idea how many times this post was typed...

WarmPepsi

iTrader: (35)

regardless of alcohol intake, you should never be anywhere NEAR the tire limit, or car limit on the streets, end of story.

Unfamiliar roads? and you're pushing the car? not the wisest either.

Normally if it's a blind corner on the street, the speed limit is below 50. If you're doing anywhere close to the limit, car dynamics are barely even going to take effect.

Sounds like you're driving too hard, on the street, and the track.

regardless, have a happy new year.

Evo442

iTrader: (1)

A few thoughts about your post - take my comments for what they are worth, I am by no means an expert but I do have some track experience.

Sounds like if you are going a little hot into a turn and brake while turning, the rear end of the car swings out (oversteer.) What you are describing is basically trail braking. Trail braking is a technique that some people use to counteract understeer in a car. It is one way to get the rear end of a car to rotate more easily than it would otherwise.

Imagine that you are entering your turn with a neutral throttle and the car starts to understeer. By adding a little braking, you are transferring weight to the front tires, thereby increasing their contact patch and grip. By adding grip to the front, the rear tires have relatively less grip and the rear end will rotate (ie induce oversteer).

To answer your question, yes, this situation can be corrected by changing your suspension settings. What you really want is to get the rear end of your car to grip better. There are a number of ways to do this...

Lower tire pressures, softer sway bar settings, softer springs, softer dampening, more negative camber,

Doing the opposite of the above to the front will also increase the grip in the rear (relatively speaking).

You should talk to whoever set up your suspension and tell them whats happening and they should be able to correct things for you.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

i don't think a driving technique should be corrected with a hardwired suspension change.

also trail braking doesn't make the rear end "swing" proper trail braking causes a gradual oversteer, anything swinging means you're doing things without enough finesse... anything swinging in midcorner is bad... you can swing at the beginning if you're going into something tight... but in the middle... is something you need to work on with your foot and hand disciplines.

Evo442

iTrader: (1)

all good points. it could also be that the suspension is set up to be too loose for his tastes.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

mmm was not aware that his sus was modded but that could be the case indeed. in which case you'd take stiffness outta the rear, increase toe and reduce rear sway bar stiffness and also mess with tire presures accordingly.

GDB

No offense but this is my 2 cents on how I see this:

If you are having to tap the brake mid-corners often, you're likely coming in too hot (as pointed out already by fellow members). Adjust your lines/speed. For me, I set up my car to ROTATE/OVERSTEER more so that at mid-corner I can punch out/WOT as soon as possible.

If you have to tap for "emergency purposes", well then there's little incentive to correct that, right? As in, why would you want to set up your car for situations which you are not likely to encounter one corner after another?

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

here's another point. most evos setup to rotate have to be driven brave, that means you don't EVER tap the brake, else you pirouette, you mash the gas, bend over and hope not to kiss yer *** goodbye. so the lesson for that is... don't go in too hot, it's not as bad as in a mid engine car but it's still the same concept.

3K

iTrader: (9)

Thanks all for the replies. Enjuku teddy, Evo442 your posts were exaclty what I was looking for. I decreased the damping abit and it seems to have helped alittle. I need to mess with tire pressures next.

Also I was not coming into any corners to hot, but probably more of getting on the gas a little to early and hard on the exit side of a decreasing radius.

Originally posted by: trinydex
ha ha I like this post. This is my new mantra.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

heh yeah i hate decreasing radius turns... they are the most dangerous i thinks. practice your left foot braking, you'll get very mild oversteer to help you rotate at the end where it gets tight and it will also let you decrease speed without unwanted balance shift.

Stop&TurnFreak

One more point, if you are braking, tapping, or reducing throttle, you are putting weight up front. If you put too much weight, then you over-burden the front tires, and they loose grip due to blow-off, rather than push. The condition is the same, but the cause is totally different.

In a decreasing radius corner, I adjust by rolling out of the throttle, you should never have to brake, at all. Worst case, I will roll out, and induce a little slide to bleed speed.