Best Coilovers For Street/track
Mar 23, 2006, 07:39 AM
#61
Originally Posted by Puckhead
Hey DMS Mark...So you don't suggest the Bilstein PSS9s? I read good things about them on this forum, but I have never been in a car with them installed. I know ride quality is all about preference, but I need something that soaks up the bumps on a regular road more than I need better lap times. I drive the car every day to work and the roads I am on really suck. It would be ideal to get the best of both worlds, although some say it's not possible. I have not purchased any suspension upgrades as of yet...and I will be careful not to make a wrong decision. But....without experiencing all the choices first hand, there is only one way to get the facts. That is by doing a lot of research and assessing the outcome using other people's opinions. That said, I do not want to downgrade the stock performance for ride quality. I'll live with the stock ride if I am going to degrade the handling of the car. I'ts all about research I guess....
BUT DMS Mark is right, several of the low end coilovers may actually be downgrades. Although it's hard not to improve grip by throwing 8/6 spring rates on the car, it is a bit more complicated then that.
I don't think he was referring to the Bilstein's though.
- Andrew
Last edited by GTWORX.com; Mar 23, 2006 at 08:14 AM. Reason: spelling > me
Mar 23, 2006, 07:41 AM
#62
Originally Posted by Evo Ate
I highly recommend the KW coilovers.....Robert Fuller installed them on my car last weekend and they are amazing. Will work perfectly for the street or the track in my opinion. I went with custom spring rates instead of the standard 9K/6K setup from KW.....the 6K rear seems too light in my opinion.
Chris
Chris
Mar 23, 2006, 08:13 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by Evo05lution
Zeal V6 have great reviews...
Any info is much appreciated... Thanks!
Mar 23, 2006, 08:24 AM
#64
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I have the tein type flex coilovers. They are a little bumpy at low speeds especially with the rough roads where I live, but they make they make the car feel like it is on rails through the twisties. Overall I'm very pleased with my purchase.
Mar 23, 2006, 09:44 AM
#65
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I am taking a close look at the DMS 40mm "Gold" Adjustable Giant struts. Are the DMS coilovers pictured 40mm or 50mm?
Suspension
Road Race Chassis custom coilovers, manufactured by Buddy Club Japan, with John's custom specifications. Tuned to each customers specific application (set-up included).
Price: $1900
JIC FLT-A2 coilovers with John's custom specifications. Tuned to each customers specific application (set-up included).
Price: $2000
Ohlin coilovers with John's custom specifications. Tuned to each customers specific application (set-up included).
Price: $2700
DMS coilovers with John's custom specifications. Tuned to each customers specific application (set-up included).
Price: $4700
Suspension
Road Race Chassis custom coilovers, manufactured by Buddy Club Japan, with John's custom specifications. Tuned to each customers specific application (set-up included).
Price: $1900
JIC FLT-A2 coilovers with John's custom specifications. Tuned to each customers specific application (set-up included).
Price: $2000
Ohlin coilovers with John's custom specifications. Tuned to each customers specific application (set-up included).
Price: $2700
DMS coilovers with John's custom specifications. Tuned to each customers specific application (set-up included).
Price: $4700
Last edited by zmeli; Mar 23, 2006 at 12:19 PM.
Mar 23, 2006, 12:27 PM
#67
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After a closer look they look like the 50mm. What is the pricing on the 40mm and if they are close to the ohlins for $2700.00 (set-up included) what would you
run?
run?
Mar 27, 2006, 08:10 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by termsheet
I just installed the Bilstein PSS9s this week. I set them to 8 (9 being the firmest setting) and they're great on the street. I wanted something with a soft ride and no bounce. Even on bumpy roads the ride is smooth. Much better than stock. I'm going to Spring Mountain this weekend and I'll let you know how they are on the track. I'm assuming that I won't be blown away on the track but I would rather have a daily driver that I love and give up a few seconds per lap on the occasional track day than have to bounce around driving to the grocery store. For $1550 I think the PSS9 offers a soft ride, lowered stance and very high quality.
I considered the KW's but I used those on a race car a few years ago and they proved unreliable. That said, KW was great in replacing many, many blown shocks. I'm also aware that they license a lot of their designs from Koni and have a very high quality manufacturing facility so the problem could have been related to the application.
Ohlins or Motons are also high quality units but they are quite a bit more money. My experience is that the European coils are generally softer than the JDM units I've tested for the Evo. I could be completely wrong but maybe it's because Japan has such smooth roads and Europe has such bumpy roads.
I have no experience with the DMS, but several people are having great results and love them. IMO you shouldn't be spending more than $2K for coils on a car that only cost $30-35K to begin with unless you are a serious track day junkie or racing. That ruled the DMS 50s out for me.
Unfortunately if you're only spending $1000 you're not going to have too many options. IMO the low end Teins ride like a$$. I haven't tried the buddy clubs. For $1000 you may want to buy some springs and call it good.
I considered the KW's but I used those on a race car a few years ago and they proved unreliable. That said, KW was great in replacing many, many blown shocks. I'm also aware that they license a lot of their designs from Koni and have a very high quality manufacturing facility so the problem could have been related to the application.
Ohlins or Motons are also high quality units but they are quite a bit more money. My experience is that the European coils are generally softer than the JDM units I've tested for the Evo. I could be completely wrong but maybe it's because Japan has such smooth roads and Europe has such bumpy roads.
I have no experience with the DMS, but several people are having great results and love them. IMO you shouldn't be spending more than $2K for coils on a car that only cost $30-35K to begin with unless you are a serious track day junkie or racing. That ruled the DMS 50s out for me.
Unfortunately if you're only spending $1000 you're not going to have too many options. IMO the low end Teins ride like a$$. I haven't tried the buddy clubs. For $1000 you may want to buy some springs and call it good.
Thanks.
Mar 27, 2006, 11:38 AM
#69
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I think the important part of the post is "a few years ago" In my experiance blown shocks is usually due to poor use of the shocks geometry an a given application. AKA bottoming, topping and overheating from using too high spring rates and then trying to keep them "snubbed down" rather then general design flaws. But each to his own.
Mar 27, 2006, 02:19 PM
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My experience with the KWs was on a 2003 Grand Am Cup Mini Cooper running very high spring rates especially in the rear. Several teams tried KWs on a variety of different cars during 2003 when KW was aggresive about getting their products to use with US race teams. We had many, many shock failures and many of the other teams had similar experiences. Most of the shocks failed because of leaking seals. In a few cases we broke the shafts. They were not well machined. Most, if not all, of the Grand Am Cup teams that tried the KWs in 2003 ended up using something different. I know that some of the teams that use KWs today are using the re-branded Koni 4 way adjustables. These are Koni shocks with KW stickers.
That said, I have no experience with the Evo KW kits. The guys at GTWorx have obviously had good experiences with them. They might be great. I was just trying to explain why I went with the PSS9 and not the KWs because they're in the same general price range.
Robi... Implying that the KWs failed because of bad geometry, misuse or an improper application would be a poor assumption. The Konis worked just fine in the exact same application. No leaking seals and no broken shafts.
That said, I have no experience with the Evo KW kits. The guys at GTWorx have obviously had good experiences with them. They might be great. I was just trying to explain why I went with the PSS9 and not the KWs because they're in the same general price range.
Robi... Implying that the KWs failed because of bad geometry, misuse or an improper application would be a poor assumption. The Konis worked just fine in the exact same application. No leaking seals and no broken shafts.
Mar 27, 2006, 02:33 PM
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I implied nothing. I stated in my experiance when shocks break its usually due to trying to do something the shocks not designed for .that includes using a street shock for racing purposes..this may or may not apply in your case. I've even seen individuals mess up rally shocks trying to run the car too low and bending shafts,destroying springs and eveporating bump stops. Most of the mini's have almost no travel prior to the bump stop..even with the masive spring rates they run in the rear...03' 06'..lots of improvement time..Both Ralli art's shock of choice and the Spec shock for Group "N" were KW's. Have some room for improvement over the course of 3 years...I installed Bilstines too like the shock's rep saddned by both the dyno curve and real world usefullnes of the adjustments..all this is imo ymmv
robi
robi
Last edited by robi; Mar 30, 2006 at 06:11 AM.
Mar 28, 2006, 04:48 PM
#73
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Certainly a shock can be damaged by misuse and given how little most people know about suspension I'm sure this is common. I just wanted to make it clear that our setup came directly from KW Germany for our specific race application. KW acknowledged the failures and worked with us to improve their products. Only a good company would do that. We do run high spring rates in the rear of the Mini (1600 lbs). And 3 years is a lot of time. I know KW supplied several of the Mini Challenge teams in Europe last season so I'm sure they worked the bugs out.
That said for a street Evo that rarely sees the track I think the Bilsteins are a good choice. No need for dyno curve because the only adjustments are soft and really soft. Of course Bilstein (Ferrari, General Motors, Jaguar, Maserati, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Subaru, DTM, Porsche Cup) and Koni (Lamborghini, Maserati, Lotus, 13 F1 championships) have many more OEM and racing relationships than KW but I'm not sure that has anything to do with whether or not the Evo KW coilover kit is any good. If people start using them and have good results then the word will get out. At the very least, they seem like a good value.
That said for a street Evo that rarely sees the track I think the Bilsteins are a good choice. No need for dyno curve because the only adjustments are soft and really soft. Of course Bilstein (Ferrari, General Motors, Jaguar, Maserati, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Subaru, DTM, Porsche Cup) and Koni (Lamborghini, Maserati, Lotus, 13 F1 championships) have many more OEM and racing relationships than KW but I'm not sure that has anything to do with whether or not the Evo KW coilover kit is any good. If people start using them and have good results then the word will get out. At the very least, they seem like a good value.
Mar 30, 2006, 03:34 AM
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Spec shock for group B? Group B competition IS DEAD. Has been banded. Only vintage and historic events exist, I am not sure this is a bench mark to test on cars that are older than a lot of people that post on this forum.
Good geometery has seen failures. Before we come out with a new model, it is tested in various configurations on more than one type of car, and in more than one type of 'setup' parameters. You have to assume that over 50% of the end customers will not use it as designed. I have been working with suspension and chasis, for over 8 years. I have been with DMS for more than half of that.
It is my experience that the majority of failures are due to MISUSE, but as a result of a poor design, the poor setup / configuration (mis-usage) puts them over the edge. Higher end models simply do not fail like this, there is way more R&D into them, and that is why the pricing is higher as well.
50mm DMS units are for the racetrack guys, if you drive your car on the street, I highly recommend you save your $$ and go with the 40mm. Same construction, same design, same springs, same type of valving (characteristic - progressive). Bump and rebound are a simultaneous adjustment as opposed to indpenant. Every time you add a click of adjustment to the compression on the 40mm, the rebound rate is going up as well.
Hope this helps everyone! Any other questions, PM robi!
-mark
PS: 50mm units have the DMS mounts in the rear for the offset bracket with them. 40mm units use the OE top mount in the rear.
Good geometery has seen failures. Before we come out with a new model, it is tested in various configurations on more than one type of car, and in more than one type of 'setup' parameters. You have to assume that over 50% of the end customers will not use it as designed. I have been working with suspension and chasis, for over 8 years. I have been with DMS for more than half of that.
It is my experience that the majority of failures are due to MISUSE, but as a result of a poor design, the poor setup / configuration (mis-usage) puts them over the edge. Higher end models simply do not fail like this, there is way more R&D into them, and that is why the pricing is higher as well.
50mm DMS units are for the racetrack guys, if you drive your car on the street, I highly recommend you save your $$ and go with the 40mm. Same construction, same design, same springs, same type of valving (characteristic - progressive). Bump and rebound are a simultaneous adjustment as opposed to indpenant. Every time you add a click of adjustment to the compression on the 40mm, the rebound rate is going up as well.
Hope this helps everyone! Any other questions, PM robi!
-mark
PS: 50mm units have the DMS mounts in the rear for the offset bracket with them. 40mm units use the OE top mount in the rear.
Last edited by DMS_Mark; Mar 30, 2006 at 03:38 AM.