SoR

iTrader: (19)

The only way to compare would be to take the exact same car, first have one suspension setup, then the other, run it on the same track (best to run it on multiple tracks) with same driver doing multiple timed laps. Then let the car cool down, change tires, change brakes etc. change drivers and repeat.
Who will do that? Nobody I know

meanmud

iTrader: (74)

Have you had them re-valved thru Vishnu yet?? That's what Paul was doing in his spair time last year

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Lots of good replies and opinions here

Thanks Smoggy for the nice summery of what now has been the topic of many many threads

geminix3 makes a good point about buying the tuning philosophy over the actual hardware, that is the truth. The only two people who actually do custom re-valves are RRE and us (anyone else?). You can order up your Motons custom but to what spec? Moton isn't out there testing an EVO are they? We also give you everything not just shocks, you get alignment spec tire/wheel combo the critical bushings the exact ride heights and exactly how much faster you car will be with the changes. We take the guesswork out of it. I will even tell you exactly how to drive it to get the same results...no or hype just quantifiable results.

If you wonder how much work is done to the Vishnu Ohlins, my car is getting another re-valve tonight for me to test this week. We don't just make them stiffer and softer we play with the actual dampening curves throughout the range so it doesnt matter how many external adjustment they have or don't have we set the curves to work on the car so you don't have to twirl a bunch of dials and have a dedicated testing program, we have done it for you. Again the guesswork is removed. Also remember that the street ride rocks on these things then when you get to the track you turn them up a few clicks (we will tell you exactly how many for your combo) and let her rip

BTW my WC GT Volvo has....Ohlins on it (and it seems to be pretty fast ). That car is a lot like an EVO BTW a very complicated EVO!

take care,
Paul

EVOlutionary

iTrader: (38)

Of course they have custom valve settings to give the desired dampning cuves. They are have custom spring rates too. And no, they weren't done by one of the "two" places that revalve Ohlins. This shop is in Indiana or Illinois, can't remember.

All I can say is low compression and high rebound dampning coupled with high spring rates gets the job done. And as mentioned above, they ride AWESOME on the street.

Do you guys run higher rates in the rear than in the front??

EVOlutionary

robi

iTrader: (24)

I vote for Tein Flexes
I got 1.07 G's at the last SCCUSCC using 4 year old pilot sport cups on the APR EVILR Evo..(3260 lbs with fuel no driver) using them bump steered barred bushinged + 1 day testing and alignment session.....Highest AWD skidpad figure I've ever seen posted..

So I vote with the guy who says set-up guru is the key here ;-).

Ron

Don't get too crazy with the low compression / high rebound strategy, with that approach you will move the roll center towards the inside tire (when in a turn). This changes the effective cross weighting and can make the car behave more unpredictably (or less predictably).

Just to echo the sentiments of gemini, chronohunter, and robi-- damper valving is something best left to the pros... spinning adjusters on an "off the shelf" damper, no matter how high-end, will rarely if ever net the results of a bespoke damper.

EVOlutionary

iTrader: (38)

Thanks for the advice. I won't go crazy. My dampner valving was not set by a "pro" racer, but they do alright in grass-roots racing.

Am I correct in thinking that an optimal damner setting on an autocross car will be very different from the settings on a road race car due the the great increase in the rate of the transients?

To an extent doesn't low compression dampning allow very quicker weight transfer as compared to very high compression dampning? Quick weight transfer is nice in AX, while I would think a bit slower and more gradual transfer would be optimal in road racing with longer, larger radius turns.

EVOlutionary

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

The real over all goal is to try and get as much work/grip from all four tires while giving the driver a responsive yet controllable car.

A lot of people have different ideas on how to make a car work and it's the stuff of urban legend in most cases. It is such a complex task to make the car which is unique to all other cars work with a driver that is unique to all other drivers. Think about the amount of variables involved here, it's staggering.

So is autocrossing different? yes and no. You can spike load a car on and auto-x and in won't spin like the same maneuver on a road course. It all comes down to speed, in general terms, the faster cars go the more oversteer prone the are. So at an auto-x you are being unusually aggressive to combat the inherent understeer due to the low speeds, on a road course more traditional technique and gentler inputs start to come into play as the speed increases.

It would make sense then that an Auto-x car would be set-up differently that a fast road course car. The lines do blur however for example on the Streets of Willow I'd want an auto-x type set-up and on big Willow I'd want a road course set-up. Both are road courses but the average speeds are vastly different.

The aggressive transitions of auto-x demand real body control, if the vehicle is going to stay hooked up the rate of load transfer can't be so great that it overwhelms the all-important contact patch, in other words the shock must control the rate of load increase on the tire taking into account changes occurring at the contact patch itself. Vertical load will increase grip if and only if the tire is ready for it. So lite compression may not be the answer, it depends on the platform the driver and the particular course in question.

I guess this is why we do so much testing!

geminix3

iTrader: (5)

agreed. always nice to bat ideas around with you guys.

i think Works revalves their Ohlins kit, too, don't they? either way, most serious chassis shops will revalve your dampers to your specs if you got the cabbage- it's really retailing re-valved kits as an off-the-shelf item that you're referring to.

btw- i'm still holding out hope that you'll set up a skidpad madness day out here, is that completely off the radar at this point?


mother of god, man- it's one thing to have my point illustrated, but that's a spike, a booty dance, and whippin out the sharpie. tein's been my poster child for inferior HW for a long time (only recently has it lost it's position at the top (bottom?) of that food chain). but that pretty much proves what women have been telling me my whole life:

it's not the equipment, it's what you can do with it.

evoracerx

iTrader: (7)

I have a 450 (8kg) spring on the front of my ohlins. I would like to know, before I get these revalved by 1 of 5 people, what is done to change the dampening characteristics. I ask because I received an e-mail from a European Evo tuner who has been revalving Ohlins for a while, they said setting 6 would be sufficient.

In other words what is being changed when you "revalve"? are you adding shims? Anyone want to go into depth with this so I can understand this better.

Anyone have before and after shock dyno graphs for a comparison?

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

While I can't yet post Vishnu dyno charts I can tell you categorically that there is not a click setting on the stock Ohlins that is track worthy of any springs over 200lbs. We absolutely re-shim and change every internal parameter of the shock to not only change the amount of force (which goes up several times at some speeds) but the shape of the curve, this is to improve body control (handling) and also very good wheel control (ride).

geminix3

iTrader: (5)

i can't really imagine that any of the players here are going put their graphs up for all to see and nitpick, but if you say you're working with a shop (i think?), then i would assume they have all the information you need, including graphs of previous work, and will work with you offline to get you exactly what you want.

on the other hand, i would be willing to put money on any real professional not reacting too well to you coming to them with your own ideas on the technical aspects of revalving, or - god forbid- a list of specifications, based what you think you know because you read it in an internet forum.

DMS_Mark

OK I have to post. This is a worth while thread, the best one I have come across during my time working with DMS. Finally we are comparred to a quality shock and not a Tawain nock-off set (too many to list, all are basically the same)

I am happy to have a heads up comparrison between two quality shocks. Each have their advantages and disadvantages. Each have sevral different models and valving so be careful to compare each one relevant to the other.

That being said, if you have any questions concerning our product, I will be happy to help out.

Regards,
-mark

robi

iTrader: (24)

Oh did I state they ride like sh**? set-up like this?

chmodlf

iTrader: (19)

I find it very odd that Mark Daddio would choose chronohunter's approach to suspension setup. I know for a fact that he uses a Hotchkis rear sway. Mark likes a VERY loose car. He steers with the throttle (left foot brakes). It seems that he is more in line with Robi than chronohunter.

Most average mortals that would drive his EVO would probably spin with his setup(massive oversteer).

I am pretty sure that he used someone else to revalve his Ohlins.