meanmud

iTrader: (74)

Well - the voting is as useless as some of the bickering you're having issues with; I voted Ohlins too, because I have set for my Evo. I have never been in an Evo with the DMS' so how can I honestly say I've experienced the difference between the two. I have been assisted in great detail by Vishnu/Chrono; therefore I have put my complete trust in there/his judgement.

And to Chrono's point, I had my Ohlins for about a year before they were custom valved - like many of the Ohlins sold by Vishnu.

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

IMHO, John, Chrono and Robi are just "trash talking" which is all good because they aren't physically threatening each other and calling each others products crap. Infact if anything they are saying while the competition's products are good their's is better. In the end the proof is in the pudding as they say. It's during sessions like these, people like you and me can pick up good info.

These guys need to duke it out with stock EVOs (powerwise) modified only with only their suspension components, tires have to be the same too

EVOlutionary

iTrader: (38)

^ That would be an awesome challenge. The "Suspension Tuner Challenge". Every team gets a stock EVO to play with the shocks, sway bars, bushings, etc. and then run it through a buch of tests - slolom, skidpad, autocross, road course, subjective street driving analysis, etc.

I would buy that magazine!! Are you listening editors??

EVOlutionary

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=BillAce]
Chrono, You accuse someone of being angry but I see no exclamation points, Caps or inflamatory remarks. He wished them well at their event. Then you bring up another site vendor to bad mouth. Maybe its not a cioncidence but rather someones own perception...
[QUOTE]

I was commenting on Robi answer to John at RRE not at me. He was not wishing John luck, that was pure sarcasm on his part. You don't need caps or bold type or exclamation marks to show contempt on the internet and how about his unwillingness to respond to the technical nature of my post?

The threads do go easy until myself or John starts to call BS on what really is propaganda. No other way to put it. It is not based on any accepted professional techniques but it is repeated here in post after post and more and more people climb aboard every day. I (and others) who do this stuff for a living watch this go on and after a while you have to call BS on what's being said here. I don't just do it to make myself happy, I do it to provide another perspective that is absolutely based on facts and you don't have to take my word for. Go out please and verify what I profess by reading things like Skip Barber's "Going Faster" or "The Racing Tire" or "The Shock Handbook" or "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics." The reason they all say the same thing is that there really is only one accepted way to do it.

Please realize that all Robi and Co. profess about progressive springs and no trail braking are against all what is taught in the above books (and all the rest that I didn't have the room to mention) and is not used in pavement based professional motorsports.

You guys be the ultimate judge not by trusting Robi, John or myself but by learning enough about this stuff that you can make educated decisions. If that's the case we'll have plenty of customers.

Also realize Vishnu does not currently have product to sell! I am doing this just to right a wrong, not to sell shock (that I don't get a dime on anyway).

meanmud

iTrader: (74)

Not a dime - but I do owe you a bunch of beers

robi

iTrader: (24)

[QUOTE=chronohunter][QUOTE=BillAce]
Chrono, You accuse someone of being angry but I see no exclamation points, Caps or inflamatory remarks. He wished them well at their event. Then you bring up another site vendor to bad mouth. Maybe its not a cioncidence but rather someones own perception...
Chrono,
I'm glad you can read my mind.

I like Kent J the owner of the "Muellerized" effort with the SCCA out here., and would always wish him the best even if and when we are driving the same event as competitors.

The book I use is the source Race Car Engineering with the acommpaning software WinGeo3... Good enough for Bill Ball @ GM = good Enough for me.

as far as trail braking goes I side with Sir Jackie Stewart on the issue.

"Someone once told Jackie Stewart that Bob Bondurant had good results with trail-braking. The reply? "And just how many Formula One Championships has Bob Bondurant won?" Stewart believes very strongly in the brake-straight SIFO theory. Proved it rather strongly in a test session with a Taurus."

and a final thought.. if I teach a new driver to brake all the way to the apex..and he misses his braking start point..he has zero room for error..and has just damaged his car going off track..SIFO straight line braking has a much higher margin for error here.. imo. cars with light front ends are helped by waiting to get all the way off the brake untill after turn in....but we are on an Evo forum...

john@rre

Again, you type about topics which you know nothing about. I am the owner of the Muellerized team, and it is my choice to have Kent drive our Evo. In the future, please do not speculate on how/what we do here, as the words you type (again!) have absolutely nothing to do with the facts of the situation.

robi

iTrader: (24)

OK I like Kent J PERIOD and would wish him the best in all his Endeavors.

nothere

iTrader: (23)

chronohunter,

So what you are doing with the Ohlins is making a single adjustable shock, set up so it exhibits the best qualities of a dual adjustable shock?

not to change the subject

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Funny you mention Jackie, in his book he says here doesn't trail brake yet I did a Ford program with him in Moscow and we raced each day in different Fords and guess what he trail-braked (and was damn fast). Remember his career was spent driving mid-engined cars with rear biased weight distribution (that hardly ever require trailbraking). My ex-Volvo teammate Derek Bell was the exact same way. We've been through all this before...


How could you "teach it" if you don't even believe it!?! You don't brake "all the way to the Apex" BTW you brake till the car is pointed at the apex usually a couple of car lengths before the Apex. Oh and you are exactly backwards on the lite front end thing. Why do you thing Jackie didn't trail brake a formula car? because it's lite in the front... you need to get you physics right and you'll see what's going on...

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

we get the compression and rebound curve right buy testing and testing some more. We know on RA-1s with a certain spring rate and a certain alignment it like exactly X amount of compression an Y amount of rebound so we tell you all of those things and you can exactly replicate the set-up and know that all the variables are removed (less compromise). When you run your street tires the rest of the time we have set the dampening curves up just for that as well and again we give you all the info to replicate that as well.

Once the curves are dialed in you don't need to independently twirl the knobs, just go stiffer for the grippier tires and softer for the less gripper tires. We've done the testing and work for you, you have the right blend of compression and rebound no matter what the click setting and you just set-up according to the "play book " we provide you with.

Remember it not the amount of clicks and adjustment that makes a shock good, it's how well they match you car that counts, the better they match the less adjusting/experimenting you'll need to do

chmodlf

iTrader: (19)

Chrono

Do you have a street/autox setup vs. street/road race setup for the Ohlin RTs? Or would your normal setup suffice?

I am trying to attain that ever elusive (impossible?) compromise between a full autox setup (r compounds) that has 900lb spring rates and will be extremely stiff for daily driving (the roads in CT suck). I am willing to compromise some performance and some comfort as I do not have a dedicated race car.

Thanks

Miotch

Personally I feel DMS is perhaps one of the best suspension systems on the market. However, I have little experience with ohlins, so I can't really comment.

BUT......


I would like to challange anyone with Ohlins. I'll even pay for your entry fee. Where and When?

Colorado Off Road Extreme. When ever anyone calls me and wants to do this thing and settle it once and for all. 303-296-3030

I'll bring my subaru 2.5 rs with 50mm NGs on em. Or if you are in the area and want a ride to see what they're like, feel free to call me on this as well. The course is gravel and really smooth. However, if you wish, there is oportunity for some serious air. We'll see which system stands up better in a rally envioronment. You don't need a cage or Skid plates but I recomend you bring them.

Here is a video of the course. www.cp-racing.com/files/CORECLANND.wmv
The RS is running 40mm DMS in this video.

Seriously, Call me if you want to do this thing.

Mitch
www.checkpoint-racing.com
303-296-3030
2851 Larimer St
Denver, CO 80205

Miotch

By the way. There is an in car shot that looks rather hard in this video. It was a hard landing because I landed on the nose of the car and not the suspension. (put the whole front end into the motor on that one)

Mitch

meanmud

iTrader: (74)

Miotch - what will that settle

Cool vid though - love the end