jid2

iTrader: (62)

No offense, but why don't you get real.

We are talking about street suspension, or in rally terms "tarmac". What would a test of your gravel rally suspension prove? And for the record I have seen DMS rally struts break in two, and DMS has about the worst customer service ever. I hear things are better now, but a few years ago dealing with DMS was a joke.

How bout this, you bring your little 2.5 RS with it's gravel suspension out to MMP in Utah and see how it does. Infact leave the gravel tires on and I'll run RA1's... that should prove all sorts of stuff.

Anyway, this is not about rally cars.

RallyCam

Here's a real question.
I have just purchased a set of secondhand DMS gravel suspension, and would like to know what the spring rates are.

know they are progressive, but the low rates are onlu for the first couple of inches of travel, then they look like they should be approx linear.

Front springs are: DSP-M-350-DP-350FL
Rears are : DSP-M-200-DP-350FL.

The second number (350) would appear to be the free length, so i'd assume the first number would relate to the spring rate, does it mean that the main rate is 350Lb/inch in front and 200 at the rear?
That just sounds a bit mismatched to me, I thought they should be closer than that.

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

I would love too! My car is too low for jumps but it's plenty fun in the gravel (I live on a gravel road and have a looong driveway with a hairpin in it ). I couldn't download the Video so I'm not sure how rutted it is (that would be my only worry). PM me and let me know where and when

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

I knew Paul would take him up on that challenge. (even if it doesn't prove anything)

jid2

iTrader: (62)

Video is not that great. The course looks ok, but doesn't appear to have alot of hard, sharp corners. The corners that are tight and technical are all blown in the video.

The guy won't commit to the corners ahead of time and throw the car sideways. So he ends up pushing the corner or driving around it "standard". It reminds me of my first day in a car on gravel trying to learn how to get 'er done.

They need to go watch some Pat Richard videos!

chmodlf

iTrader: (19)

Less trash talk. More info.

Please answer the legit questions...

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

realistically we all know that street ride will never be fantastic with that sort of spring rate. I would suggest one compromise set-up that could work (though it is a compromise). That would be to go down in spring rate and add adjustable front and rear sway bars, it would be a little slower than just using the big springs on a smooth track. The other option would be just to change springs for an event. The shocks have the range for just about any spring combination.

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Patience, I was busy today crashing my race car (at some point this season has to get better).

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

Are you OK? Let me know if you need anything.

jj_008

iTrader: (8)

I can't wait to get my hands on a set of Vishnu/Chronohunter spec Ohlins. What else would an EVO owner want? You have an engineer, who happens to be a professional race car driver, that modifies and tests different combinations of Ohlins coil overs specifically to improve the performance of the EVO.

Keep up the good work

DMS_Mark

Will help out a little here.
We can setup up our off the shelf shocks anyway we want. Basic maybe, but why risk the chance of in-experienced suspension gurus messing up a curve that works. Granted, and I agree, it leaves something to be desired for SOME people, and is not ideal for 100% conditions. It suits over 95% of people and conditions we have come across so far. Reason is simplicity as well.

Custom setups make it virtually impossible to offer technical support unless you know exactly what the customer has done to their shocks? Being a small company DMS simply does not have the man-power for this, so we only offer customizable valving on the three, four, five, six and seven way units. We are no longer talking about a street setup, and unless you have access to a dyno and some heavy knowledge, you can not re-valve these to meet your needs.

Kind of like this, entry level systems for entry level customers (no offense intended to anyone at all). The more we design into a shock as far as what the customers can do with them, the more experience that is required to set them up.

You would be surprised how many customers call with difficulties tuning a seperate rebound adjustment (like on the 50mm). No imagine if they are modifying low and high speed settings?

Anyways, my two cents for today And I still think OHLINS is a good suspension manufacturer, but ask them to give you a recommended setting on a custom valved setup by joe blow from the corner shop? It is difficult for them to give a recommendation with no info at hand.

-mark

PS: Good idea mitch, we will need to do a gravel test and tarmac test though
I have lent a set of 40mm to ROBI to do some tarmac testing. I hope he will install it in a car that some people can drive besides the owner. Get a wider range of feedback.

Cool video Mitch, and I suggest any off-road, or rallycross guys take mitch up on his offer!!!!

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the level headed and thoughtful response You do bring up many interesting and valid points that will further this discussion...

I think Ohlins also agrees with this philosophy as do many retailers as well. Shock tuning is a total can of worms. For this reason it is reasonable to leave it all alone and leave the custom stuff to the high end users that can clearly communicate the set-up desired. Because of you inability to actually test the settings at the track yourselves you cannot verify/quantify changes.

You see where I'm going with this? We have a system in place that removes these issues. I am hired by Vishnu to develop systems of suspensions. I involve a major universities motorsports engineering graduate program. Or resulting testing and research includes everything that could be considered a variable and eliminating it. We then give the customers every setting down to tire and tire pressures rim widths and offsets all alignment settings etc.etc. We can give anyone at any level a first rate reasonably priced suspension system that will work as advertised. I communicate with each customer individually to make sure it has the balance they desire between street and track performance. This is why I boldly state that our set-ups will outperform more expensive options.

We eliminate this price penalty, they are all custom and all the same price. We give the inexperienced guys what the need, they are no less demanding than the experienced guys

That is why we remove the guesswork. I have not had any customer no matter the experience level get lost in click settings. Because we provide comprehensive exact settings. Our bump/rebound curves are pre-set one to the other.

I agree 100%, you should find and stick with a trusted source. Let them determine what the proper setting should be, not the customer. You just listen to the customer and determine what they need and make sure they understand the inherent compromise of their particular set-up requirements so when the actually try the product it meets or exceeds they expectations.

jid2

iTrader: (62)

Paul,

I have decided that you should just sell me the Ohlins OFF your car. Since there are none for me to buy, and you keep telling me why I SHOULD buy them!

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

I'll part them out...everybody gets one corner

You guys do realize that you could get JRZ's, Ohlins 2 ways, Motons etc. and we can re-valve them NOW. Yes you'd have to spend more but you would get a fancier shock (won't perform any better but they're cooler ). Just a thought for all the "trust fund babies"

talentsearch301

iTrader: (79)

So DMS Mark ...where do you place the DMS 40mm?

What type of driver buys the 40mm? someone with...Daily driver sometimes track?

What type of driver buys the 50mm? Full blown race car?

Are you saying that the DMS 40mm are the same playing field as the Ohlins R/T

and the DMS 50MM are on a higher level?

I also see the price range for the DMS 40mm and Ohlins R/T are about the same

Im just asking...just want to know...that why I started this thread

thanks

So does the formula below look correct to you?

DMS 50mm > Ohlins R/T = DMS 40mm

Im just asking...I dont know