After corner weight ride height
May 3, 2006, 08:02 AM
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After corner weight ride height
Can someone post picture of what ride height you currently have after your coner weight.
I corner balance my car recently and feel that the car loves to oversteer alot. Mostly on mid corners, even with very smooth transition. Here are some specs of my setup.
Zeal function-xs with F 8K and R 9K.
Corner weight specs cross weight 50%
LF: 1079 RF : 1065
LR: 675 RR: 660
Thats with driver in the car, am i in the right track?
I corner balance my car recently and feel that the car loves to oversteer alot. Mostly on mid corners, even with very smooth transition. Here are some specs of my setup.
Zeal function-xs with F 8K and R 9K.
Corner weight specs cross weight 50%
LF: 1079 RF : 1065
LR: 675 RR: 660
Thats with driver in the car, am i in the right track?
May 3, 2006, 01:11 PM
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Well, not having Coilovers, I'm not sure how good my information will be, but from what I know about suspension setups, if you want a little more neutral or a little less oversteer, take out a little of the rears... make them just a tad softer.
Or take out a little sway, or add a little camber.
All should do roughly the same things.
If it's a VERY gentle turn, I'd almost say it's not the shocks, but more something like the sway bar or camber of the rear tires.
Or take out a little sway, or add a little camber.
All should do roughly the same things.
If it's a VERY gentle turn, I'd almost say it's not the shocks, but more something like the sway bar or camber of the rear tires.
May 3, 2006, 11:39 PM
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No, i don't have any upgraded swaybar. Camber are -3 front and -1.5 rear. Have been seeing all others setup and seems that my ride height is a little too tall, just want someone to post some pictures of their ride height with aftermarket coilover and i'll re-adjust from there.
For sure is not the shocks, after the coilover it get rid of most of unwanted body roll and ride is much more comfort as compare to stock.
Seems like noone likes to post in the advance thread, i'll wait for a few days and see if there is any answer. If not i'll try my luck on the normal suspension and wheels thread.
For sure is not the shocks, after the coilover it get rid of most of unwanted body roll and ride is much more comfort as compare to stock.
Seems like noone likes to post in the advance thread, i'll wait for a few days and see if there is any answer. If not i'll try my luck on the normal suspension and wheels thread.
May 4, 2006, 06:06 AM
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I think your rear springs are a little hard. try backing way down on the rear bump and see it that has any effect. Add to that some more bump in the front.
as to your question of ride height, right now my rear springs are a tad long, causing the rear end to be higher than stock. The front is down where I want it. (Makes the car look a little retro american power). Anyway, it handles pretty well despite being high in the rear.
If you have a stock bar, good rubber, and tire pressure, the only adjustment you have left is softening the rear shocks. Or spring for a softer set of springs.
as to your question of ride height, right now my rear springs are a tad long, causing the rear end to be higher than stock. The front is down where I want it. (Makes the car look a little retro american power). Anyway, it handles pretty well despite being high in the rear.
If you have a stock bar, good rubber, and tire pressure, the only adjustment you have left is softening the rear shocks. Or spring for a softer set of springs.
May 4, 2006, 06:29 AM
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I do not have my coilovers on yet but I will try to dig up my printout from when I had them installed and corner balanced on the 03. I think it had ride hight on it as well.
May 4, 2006, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sgevotx
Can someone post picture of what ride height you currently have after your coner weight.
I corner balance my car recently and feel that the car loves to oversteer alot. Mostly on mid corners, even with very smooth transition. Here are some specs of my setup.
Zeal function-xs with F 8K and R 9K.
Corner weight specs cross weight 50%
LF: 1079 RF : 1065
LR: 675 RR: 660
Thats with driver in the car, am i in the right track?
I corner balance my car recently and feel that the car loves to oversteer alot. Mostly on mid corners, even with very smooth transition. Here are some specs of my setup.
Zeal function-xs with F 8K and R 9K.
Corner weight specs cross weight 50%
LF: 1079 RF : 1065
LR: 675 RR: 660
Thats with driver in the car, am i in the right track?
As others have said, most of that oversteer is coming from the rear spring rate. For cars with a FLSD, optimal setup for most people is the reverse of what you have.
I don't think the Function XS has enough damping to handle 9K springs. It's more of a street oriented damper.
Do you know your toe settings?
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May 4, 2006, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by nothere
oh btw congrats on the 50 50 corner weight. my tuner stoped at 49/ 51, said he wanted to keep the car close to same height.
what is the magic to your front left and right being so close in weight?
what is the magic to your front left and right being so close in weight?
My LF is 1/2 an inch taller than the RF, i think thats why.
May 4, 2006, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by redvolution
Did you experience the oversteer pre-corner weighting?
As others have said, most of that oversteer is coming from the rear spring rate. For cars with a FLSD, optimal setup for most people is the reverse of what you have.
I don't think the Function XS has enough damping to handle 9K springs. It's more of a street oriented damper.
Do you know your toe settings?
As others have said, most of that oversteer is coming from the rear spring rate. For cars with a FLSD, optimal setup for most people is the reverse of what you have.
I don't think the Function XS has enough damping to handle 9K springs. It's more of a street oriented damper.
Do you know your toe settings?
I think i'll try lowering my rear and see whether it solve the oversteer problem, as of right now my rear are taller than my front. Been looking at most of the people here have a taller front that the rear.
The coilover is a custom set and have to wait 3 months from japan to make it, all valving has been re-valve to accept the current spring rate. Not the standard function-xs that comes with 5K and 6K springs and just replace them with a 8K and 9k springs.
The toe are 0 on all 4 corners.
May 9, 2006, 04:53 PM
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sounds like a cool setup... well when i threw on my coilovers i actually set it up to where the suspension geometry wouldbt be nuch affected because if you do drop the mcpherson strut setup too low it actually makes the car handle worse... the shock should be as close to 90 degrees as possible.. "SO IVE HEARD" lol... anyways.. a little over steer never hurt anyone... way better than understeer... just because the car is corner weighted dont expect a miracle, its still up to you to tune the stiffness setting for your style/feel of driving...
May 10, 2006, 02:51 PM
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Lowering the rear will tend to make your oversteer worse. Two reasons are:
1) You would be transfering more weight to the rear
2) A roll axis that angles downward toward the rear of the car promotes roll oversteer
What settings are your dampers set on? You can try adding some front and/or softening the rear...
1) You would be transfering more weight to the rear
2) A roll axis that angles downward toward the rear of the car promotes roll oversteer
What settings are your dampers set on? You can try adding some front and/or softening the rear...
Originally Posted by sgevotx
Before and after corner are almost the same.
I think i'll try lowering my rear and see whether it solve the oversteer problem, as of right now my rear are taller than my front. Been looking at most of the people here have a taller front that the rear.
The coilover is a custom set and have to wait 3 months from japan to make it, all valving has been re-valve to accept the current spring rate. Not the standard function-xs that comes with 5K and 6K springs and just replace them with a 8K and 9k springs.
The toe are 0 on all 4 corners.
I think i'll try lowering my rear and see whether it solve the oversteer problem, as of right now my rear are taller than my front. Been looking at most of the people here have a taller front that the rear.
The coilover is a custom set and have to wait 3 months from japan to make it, all valving has been re-valve to accept the current spring rate. Not the standard function-xs that comes with 5K and 6K springs and just replace them with a 8K and 9k springs.
The toe are 0 on all 4 corners.
May 10, 2006, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ez
Lowering the rear will tend to make your oversteer worse. Two reasons are:
1) You would be transfering more weight to the rear
2) A roll axis that angles downward toward the rear of the car promotes roll oversteer
What settings are your dampers set on? You can try adding some front and/or softening the rear...
1) You would be transfering more weight to the rear
2) A roll axis that angles downward toward the rear of the car promotes roll oversteer
What settings are your dampers set on? You can try adding some front and/or softening the rear...
2) Please explain further for those of us who don't understand how the roll-axis works.
May 10, 2006, 08:37 PM
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I just lowered the rear an inch and the car feels more neutral now, still a little oversteer but not as much as compare to the previous ride height.
I didn't lower the car much as the guy that do the corner weight told me not to lower it too much as it'll change the geometry of the suspension and is not recommended. I didn't get to measure the height but roughly 3 finger gap up front and 2 finger gap at the rear.
As of right now i had 4 click front and rear, i've tried 5 click front & rear. But it seems like too stiff to me, car becomes pretty lose all 4 wheels.
I guess i'll have to try out diffrent setup and see which the best combination to fit my driving style.
I didn't lower the car much as the guy that do the corner weight told me not to lower it too much as it'll change the geometry of the suspension and is not recommended. I didn't get to measure the height but roughly 3 finger gap up front and 2 finger gap at the rear.
As of right now i had 4 click front and rear, i've tried 5 click front & rear. But it seems like too stiff to me, car becomes pretty lose all 4 wheels.
I guess i'll have to try out diffrent setup and see which the best combination to fit my driving style.
May 11, 2006, 07:39 AM
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The problem with this thread is that suspension is way too complicated to set up over the internet, especially without hard geometry and motion data. So the posts are only basic explanations and leave much on the table.
To answer question one: The way I stated it was not 100% correct. There is a difference between mass and weight. All things being equal, If you add mass to the rear, you will exceed the limit of lateral grip sooner there - causing added oversteer.
Transferring weight to the rear by another method (apply throttle, aero downforce, or adjust suspension) could have a beneficial effect by adding a vertical load as you stated...but only to a point...point #2 actually.
The roll axis is simply a line through the roll centers for each end of the car. In a turn, the chassis tends to rotate about this axis. The relationship of the center of gravity height to the roll axis height is also very important to the way weight is transferred...and on each end contributes to oversteer/understeer.
So technically, without knowing all of the data from his setup, we cannot say for sure how his car will behave...only general ideas.
To answer question one: The way I stated it was not 100% correct. There is a difference between mass and weight. All things being equal, If you add mass to the rear, you will exceed the limit of lateral grip sooner there - causing added oversteer.
Transferring weight to the rear by another method (apply throttle, aero downforce, or adjust suspension) could have a beneficial effect by adding a vertical load as you stated...but only to a point...point #2 actually.
The roll axis is simply a line through the roll centers for each end of the car. In a turn, the chassis tends to rotate about this axis. The relationship of the center of gravity height to the roll axis height is also very important to the way weight is transferred...and on each end contributes to oversteer/understeer.
So technically, without knowing all of the data from his setup, we cannot say for sure how his car will behave...only general ideas.
Originally Posted by redvolution
1) Won't transferring more weight to the rear reduce oversteer because the rear tires will have more force applied to them and thus more grip?
2) Please explain further for those of us who don't understand how the roll-axis works.
2) Please explain further for those of us who don't understand how the roll-axis works.
May 11, 2006, 07:44 AM
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The rear must have been pretty high compared to the front 
You may get further benefit by making the rear shocks softer than the front. My last Evo, for instance, liked a 5 click difference front to rear. But the effect of the shocks may not be as dramatic in your scenario of a smooth mid-corner oversteer since the weight has already been transferred at that point....
You may get further benefit by making the rear shocks softer than the front. My last Evo, for instance, liked a 5 click difference front to rear. But the effect of the shocks may not be as dramatic in your scenario of a smooth mid-corner oversteer since the weight has already been transferred at that point....
Originally Posted by sgevotx
I just lowered the rear an inch and the car feels more neutral now, still a little oversteer but not as much as compare to the previous ride height.
I didn't lower the car much as the guy that do the corner weight told me not to lower it too much as it'll change the geometry of the suspension and is not recommended. I didn't get to measure the height but roughly 3 finger gap up front and 2 finger gap at the rear.
As of right now i had 4 click front and rear, i've tried 5 click front & rear. But it seems like too stiff to me, car becomes pretty lose all 4 wheels.
I guess i'll have to try out diffrent setup and see which the best combination to fit my driving style.
I didn't lower the car much as the guy that do the corner weight told me not to lower it too much as it'll change the geometry of the suspension and is not recommended. I didn't get to measure the height but roughly 3 finger gap up front and 2 finger gap at the rear.
As of right now i had 4 click front and rear, i've tried 5 click front & rear. But it seems like too stiff to me, car becomes pretty lose all 4 wheels.
I guess i'll have to try out diffrent setup and see which the best combination to fit my driving style.
Last edited by ez; May 11, 2006 at 07:47 AM.