4Trouble

I went to my first ever road racing course last weekend and it was a blast. It is about a 2min lap so it is on small to average size track. No elevation and rather predictable turns made it really newbie friendly. I went on a two day trip, about 30 laps each day, of about 3-10 lap intervals (about 4-5 sessions each day). Most were free runs although I tried to drive on the competitive side within my limited skills, I realized how much of a car EVO is the first time, most of the cars that day had no chance and most were modded elises and exiges, and I'm sure they all had much more driving skills than me.

The problem occured on the second day, towards the end of the day, the car's brake system failed on me and I almost crashed headon into the wall, luckily I spun out in good angle. The brakes were bled and fluid replaced couple times during the stay there, so that wasn't the problem. When I brought the car back to the pit, I realized that there was no pad left on any of the brakes. I took it to a shop the day after and they said all four rotors and calipers are beyond repairable from overheating.

Have my mechanics put wrong fluid? Using stockpad on track would destroy the entire brake system? If I have high end brake system (I will end up getting one of those sets as it would cost me about $5000 for all four stocks + shipping from Japan) can I beat on the car for hours without overheating (Like say 30 laps without any break)

ROAD RACE VR-4

iTrader: (4)

How many miles on the brake setup?
Is that shop reputable or not?

The reason I'm asking is because a lot of times they'll tell you stuff is wrong and it needs replacing even if its not bad. I understand that rotors might get warped or cracked or if they are below the minimum thickness and can't be resurfaced/cut anymore.

I've never heard of having to replace the calipers because of overheating. You change calipers if they're leaking or cracked or something. In most cases you just buy new seals and rebuild them and not having to buy an entire new caliper.

RoBear

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I want to hear more about this as well. I have a completely stock brake set-up with about 17k miles on the car. I am entering in a road race event this spring, and I don't want to have to replace the whole braking system just to take my car to the track.

cgmeredithjr

iTrader: (6)

The following will make your factory brakes perform flawlessly:

1. Performance Friction 2-piece rotors in stock size for front, stock rotors rear.
2. Performance Friction PF-01 or PF-05 pads in front, Metallic Z in rear.
3. Titanium Heat Shields (go between pad and pistons) front and rear with anti-squeal spray on coating. Coating actually works and lets you get away with driving on the street without being obnoxious.
4. Castrol SRF fluid.
5. AMS brake ducting/cooling kit.

All of these parts can be purchased from AMS. I experimented with different track set ups and this combination takes repeated 155-55MPH braking on the back straight at Road Atlanta without fade. This combination is much cheaper than aftermarket brakes and you won't have to go to 18" wheels.

Cleve

RoBear

iTrader: (3)

^^wow, what a write up. Question: Do you suggest stainless steel brake lines? If so, what brand. Also, what would you say is the total cost for the parts you mentioned and how long does everything last?

ncaruso23

iTrader: (3)

hey i have an 03' evo with 17k miles and i have noticed a large decrease in the brake performance. I drive the car at my own little time trials and around town as my daily, and i have only had the car for 3 months and 8k miles and the brakes are now ****. i am planning on turning down the rotors, replacing pads, and runing steal lines. the problem is that i dont know what pads because i dont want to get pads that are so aggressive that they eat my rotors but i need to improve my braking. thanks for your help.

cfdfireman1

iTrader: (11)

I would take your car to different shop the odds of you really ruining you calipers are slim to none. New seals maybe, but not new calipers.

4Trouble

Thanks all for your replies!

When I spun out after the brake failure, the area was covered with ton of hollow pebbles, where it should be (or usually is) grass or sand. The walls are some concrete blocks instead of tirewalls, the track is kind of ghetto. Thanks to all the pebbles, the inner wheel, caliper and rotors are all scratched up from them, especially heavy on the calipers (some parts over 1/8 inch deep), would this affect when rebuilding them?

GTLocke13

iTrader: (1)

Just a piece of advice... don't turn the rotors on this car. Ever. My rotors were great after I wore through my first set of pads. The shop turned them putting the new pads on (without asking me). Three weeks later vibration started. By the time I had the cash to replace the rotors ($500 for pads + a trip to acapulco that I didn't go on because I broke up with the chick I was going with had kind of drained me) the shake was so bad it was causing understeer on turn entry.

I learned two things from this:

1) You almost never need to turn your rotors. Read this. If you do turn them, it's a last-ditch effort to save a set that's already ruined.
2) Aside from oil changes, I need to do all my work myself.

Balrok

iTrader: (15)

Depending on what the "rocks" hit on the calipers. The outside paint/metal and stuff you can scratch up and boil the paint off all day and it won't affect the brakes. The only things you need to watch is the pistons themselves (rocks getting wedged in and cutting the rubber/seals like already mentioned) and/or the brake lines in the caliper and the line going to the caliper. Beyond that I it's near impossible to "destroy" all rotors and calipers from one spin out. I've spun out plenty of times in cars with MUCH LESS stout brakes, several people have gone head on into the wall and the brake system is still fine.

I'm 90% sure your shop is full of A. Idiots who wouldn't know "worn" brakes from "broken" brakes if it hit them in the face, or B. A$$holes who want to take advantage of your new fondness for the sport and convince you it "needs replaced" because your actually using the car for what it was designed for in the first place. Both situations are utter bs, unless you provide pics of otherwise said "destroyed" brakes.

What you need to do for us at this point, is DEFINE failed. Did the pedal go to the floor, was it so stiff you couldn't press it down, was it gripping but slipping like there was Ice on the rotors, you don't have ABS if you have an RS so did the brakes lock up. Your description is poor at best for us to determine exactly what happened when you pressed the pedal.

Also a tip, there's no such thing as an '07 Evo

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

The stock brake calipers are fine, especially if you're still running on stock tires and rims. It's the pads that need upgrading (PF-01 pads are probably too much for street tires), along with better brake fluid (Motul RBF 600 or Castrol SRF). SS brake lines will help some also. Look at some of the discussions in the motorsport forum here for all kinds of info on good brake setups. Just remember to keep in mind what tires you are running. A street tire will need less pad than an R compound.

l8r)

cfdfireman1

iTrader: (11)

I had a rear caliper replaced under warranty and as I recall retail was about $850 for 1 rear. I'm just guessing but I'll bet the fronts are about $1300 each.

Redbud23

iTrader: (6)

The stock calipers might have overheated the the dust covers for the caliper pistons or even maybe overheated the seals but do not replace the calipers. They are so easy to rebuild. The front rebuild kit is $99 and the rear are $49. Hell I even powder coated mine while I was rebuilding them. It is very possible to overheat the brake pads if they where not broke in properly or they were ready to be replace when you went to track days. Some guys have street set of pads and a track set or just two sets of pads that are same but one is for the track. Also after heating up the brake fluid on the first day make sure you bleed the brakes after they cool off. so it doesnt happen again you can get the titanium heat shields from Girodisc for $80. They prevent alot of the heat from getting to the dust caps and the seals and the fluid. So if have any more questions just ask. The Stock Brembos are alot better than most stock systems you'll see at track.

Jeff_Jeske

iTrader: (66)

I would like to see some pics.

To me it sounds like you were running the wrong pad for your track day and you chewed them up. This is very common especially if you ran the car at 100% all day. I've killed a new set of track pads in one weekend. Racing is expensive. Some lapping days end up costing me nearly a $1000 (race tires, race pads, race gas, hotel, and track fees).

I've accidently run pads down to metal on metal before. You'll need some new EBAY rotors (Rotor Pros), the pad of your choice (Carbotech XP12), new fluid (motul 600), and maybe some spray paint to freshen up the appearance of your calipers (check the how-to section). The calipers are fine even if the dust boots are cooked and the calipers are brown as seen here on my car:

tvor

iTrader: (7)

Are those ebay rotors actually any good? I might be going through my 2nd set soon.....damn vibrations are starting up.