Sunday Suspension Discussion: What do you look for in a coilover?
Aug 30, 2008, 08:30 PM
#16
Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great thread, and free market research for me 
I won't do any plugging because I don't want to muck up the thread.
I hope to see a lot of replies. We're always open to hear what you guys want. Except we're not going to make anything in China and sell 3 ways for $2.5k. We're only going to make quality. I'm interested in how much people really want to see dyno curves. I'm rarely asked for them.
I won't do any plugging because I don't want to muck up the thread. I hope to see a lot of replies. We're always open to hear what you guys want. Except we're not going to make anything in China and sell 3 ways for $2.5k. We're only going to make quality. I'm interested in how much people really want to see dyno curves. I'm rarely asked for them.
Sep 6, 2008, 09:07 AM
#17
Great thread Andrew,
From a realistic non sponsored perspective I have yet to find what I'm looking for in a coilover in my under 3k budget.
For what I do with the car(mainly racing), I'm looking for:
A coilover that offers acceptable low speed valving to match the high speed one.
A unit that provide consistent,repeatable and mostly discernable changes with the available dampening adjustments( I could careless if its 1 or 10 clicks/turns although greater changes per click/turns helps a lot so a 6 level of adjustements unit is easier to use than a 32 level one)
A coilover that have enough drop travel that you're not forced to run higher spring rates than you need in order to keep all tires on the ground. This is where most good units out disapoints me, those short strokes coilovers are not cutting it period.
A unit that is rebuildable in a timely manner and can provide custom specs.
From a realistic non sponsored perspective I have yet to find what I'm looking for in a coilover in my under 3k budget.
For what I do with the car(mainly racing), I'm looking for:
A coilover that offers acceptable low speed valving to match the high speed one.
A unit that provide consistent,repeatable and mostly discernable changes with the available dampening adjustments( I could careless if its 1 or 10 clicks/turns although greater changes per click/turns helps a lot so a 6 level of adjustements unit is easier to use than a 32 level one)
A coilover that have enough drop travel that you're not forced to run higher spring rates than you need in order to keep all tires on the ground. This is where most good units out disapoints me, those short strokes coilovers are not cutting it period.
A unit that is rebuildable in a timely manner and can provide custom specs.
Sep 6, 2008, 08:40 PM
#18
^^^^ I agree about the droop. Having had a set of short coilovers, I am familiar with not enough travel in droop. You end up skipping over ripples and then the car starts pitching. In the corner you unload and lift the inside wheels, followed by overheating the outside tires.
Unfortunately if you lower the car you need slightly shorter shocks. Independent ride height adjustment helps but does not fix the issue.
Milburn
Unfortunately if you lower the car you need slightly shorter shocks. Independent ride height adjustment helps but does not fix the issue.
Milburn
Sep 7, 2008, 01:24 PM
#20
(recommendation) how about dampers vs springs, specifically damper forces vs spring rates, and how a typical consumer can tell how the two work together. Since there *is* math behind it, and there is a push to encourage consumers to learn how to interpret shock dynos and understand spring rates, the next logical step would be showing them how to put 2 and 2 together.
Sep 7, 2008, 05:10 PM
#21
(recommendation) how about dampers vs springs, specifically damper forces vs spring rates, and how a typical consumer can tell how the two work together. Since there *is* math behind it, and there is a push to encourage consumers to learn how to interpret shock dynos and understand spring rates, the next logical step would be showing them how to put 2 and 2 together.
Maybe it would be better to start with a basic shock dyno primer before adding the spring into the equation?
- andrew
Sep 7, 2008, 08:43 PM
#22
Evolved Member
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another thing, there is a certain monster SM evo (autox) running Ohlins Sportlines SA's with lots of stroke. His car is LOW. Basically what I am saying is that low ride height and lots of damper stroke are not exclusive.
Oct 14, 2008, 10:27 AM
#24
^ i think it would be best to keep brand names out of this thread. Maybe start a new one?
Anyway, between having my apartment broken into and my laptop stolen and being sick as a dog, camber plates for 08+ STI and WRX, springs for Legacy, swaybars for Impreza, etc, i haven't had time to do another thread with a different discussion topic. Maybe this weekend!
- Andrew
Anyway, between having my apartment broken into and my laptop stolen and being sick as a dog, camber plates for 08+ STI and WRX, springs for Legacy, swaybars for Impreza, etc, i haven't had time to do another thread with a different discussion topic. Maybe this weekend!
- Andrew
Oct 26, 2008, 02:51 PM
#28
Does anybody here have a list of info of travel info in regards to the various coilovers at their stock height?
For example, KW, Bilsteins? The amount of suspension travel before the the bumpstops are hit at stock height?
GTWorx, how about a Racecomp Engineering Coilovers Tarmac 1 for the EVO CT9A? Aren't those rebranded KW's (like the Variant 2's right)? If you are able to offer those for around 1400-1500$, it'll rain cats and dogs (with the big drop in EURO -> exchange rates lately, surely this would be possible). And water will part. Alot of non-track junkies will want something like this, they want the german ride but the price difference is just too big hence they end up buying something like a BC Coilover for around 1100$ w/ and suffer with their 2" of travel till the bumpstops hit.
The Tarmac2's are like Variant 3's right? Dunno if it's worth competing at those prices considering the Variant 3's are available, and Robispec sells a bunch
Here's what I would want - maybe something as nice and comfy as the Bilsteins PSS9 on the lowest setting, and basically 20-40% stiffer than the PSS9's at the mid-higher setting. It would also be nice if KW made independent height adjustable coilover that didn't require you to preload/unload the spring to drop / raise the car. Oh yeah, don't spend money on making it look bling bling (like the polished stainless on the kWs), just make the body stainless (heck, even brushed or raw stainless would be fine - lol) for those guys not blessed with sunny weather year round. Pretty coilovers look like *** anyways as soon as it rains
Just imagine what would happen if the Taiwanese Coilovers manufacturers actually learned something and didn't follow the japanese gut busting philosophy in designing suspension systems. Instead designed coilovers more like the germans, got rid of the short stroke, got rid of the bling, actually used decent springs which doesn't sag over time (how about sourcing them from Swift?) and sold them for an affordable price for the non-track junkie and you'll see massive change in coilover pricing.
For example, KW, Bilsteins? The amount of suspension travel before the the bumpstops are hit at stock height?
GTWorx, how about a Racecomp Engineering Coilovers Tarmac 1 for the EVO CT9A? Aren't those rebranded KW's (like the Variant 2's right)? If you are able to offer those for around 1400-1500$, it'll rain cats and dogs (with the big drop in EURO -> exchange rates lately, surely this would be possible). And water will part. Alot of non-track junkies will want something like this, they want the german ride but the price difference is just too big hence they end up buying something like a BC Coilover for around 1100$ w/ and suffer with their 2" of travel till the bumpstops hit.
The Tarmac2's are like Variant 3's right? Dunno if it's worth competing at those prices considering the Variant 3's are available, and Robispec sells a bunch
Here's what I would want - maybe something as nice and comfy as the Bilsteins PSS9 on the lowest setting, and basically 20-40% stiffer than the PSS9's at the mid-higher setting. It would also be nice if KW made independent height adjustable coilover that didn't require you to preload/unload the spring to drop / raise the car. Oh yeah, don't spend money on making it look bling bling (like the polished stainless on the kWs), just make the body stainless (heck, even brushed or raw stainless would be fine - lol) for those guys not blessed with sunny weather year round. Pretty coilovers look like *** anyways as soon as it rains
Just imagine what would happen if the Taiwanese Coilovers manufacturers actually learned something and didn't follow the japanese gut busting philosophy in designing suspension systems. Instead designed coilovers more like the germans, got rid of the short stroke, got rid of the bling, actually used decent springs which doesn't sag over time (how about sourcing them from Swift?) and sold them for an affordable price for the non-track junkie and you'll see massive change in coilover pricing.
Last edited by funks; Oct 26, 2008 at 03:36 PM.
Oct 27, 2008, 01:18 PM
#29
Here's what I'm looking for in a coilover:
Customizability / Adjustability: An off-the-shelf damper usually isn't quite right for the car/spring rates. I don't necessarily need knobs, but a cheap, easy way to change the damping curves is a necessity. Don't make me ship the thing to Timbuktu to get rebuilt/revalved.
Repeatability / Linearity / Independency: When I set the damping, it should stay there. If I change it, then change it back, it should actually go back to where it started. The shock shouldn't fade after an autocross run. 1/4 turn of adjustment should do the same thing whether I'm at the bottom of the range or the top of the range. A bump adjustment shouldn't change the rebound and vice versa.
Transparency: I should get four shock dynos with my coilovers. They should be for those particular shocks. Any company that won't give you shock dyno information is trying to hide the fact that their shocks are complete crap. If they won't give you anything but a generic curve, they're trying to hide the fact that not all of their shocks behave the same. This one should be non-negotiable.
Overall Build Quality: The coilover bodies shouldn't rust away in two years. The spring perches should stay where I set them. There should be a thrust bearing on the top hat. I shouldn't have to hold up my brake lines with tie-wraps. Camber adjustability at the steering knuckle is a big plus.
Customizability / Adjustability: An off-the-shelf damper usually isn't quite right for the car/spring rates. I don't necessarily need knobs, but a cheap, easy way to change the damping curves is a necessity. Don't make me ship the thing to Timbuktu to get rebuilt/revalved.
Repeatability / Linearity / Independency: When I set the damping, it should stay there. If I change it, then change it back, it should actually go back to where it started. The shock shouldn't fade after an autocross run. 1/4 turn of adjustment should do the same thing whether I'm at the bottom of the range or the top of the range. A bump adjustment shouldn't change the rebound and vice versa.
Transparency: I should get four shock dynos with my coilovers. They should be for those particular shocks. Any company that won't give you shock dyno information is trying to hide the fact that their shocks are complete crap. If they won't give you anything but a generic curve, they're trying to hide the fact that not all of their shocks behave the same. This one should be non-negotiable.
Overall Build Quality: The coilover bodies shouldn't rust away in two years. The spring perches should stay where I set them. There should be a thrust bearing on the top hat. I shouldn't have to hold up my brake lines with tie-wraps. Camber adjustability at the steering knuckle is a big plus.
Oct 27, 2008, 01:23 PM
#30
Just imagine what would happen if the Taiwanese Coilovers manufacturers actually learned something and didn't follow the japanese gut busting philosophy in designing suspension systems. Instead designed coilovers more like the germans, got rid of the short stroke, got rid of the bling, actually used decent springs which doesn't sag over time (how about sourcing them from Swift?) and sold them for an affordable price for the non-track junkie and you'll see massive change in coilover pricing.