Looking for input from Evo members with significant setup experience
Jul 1, 2010, 10:44 PM
#76
Just set camber and toe out in the fronts... I'm maxed out on front camber adjustment at -3.5 degrees
I measured the fender height... the driver side front is lower than the passenger side front.
The driver side rear is also lower than the passenger side rear...
RF 25.00
LF 24.75
RR 24.75
LR 24.50
I assume the driver side is lower to corner balance the car...but we'll see when it gets on the scales. Going to alignment tomorrow morning on the slicks
Good think the "GTR spec" Hunter rack @ the Volvo dealership is like 2 blocks away
I had to dial in a bunch of toe out with the increased negative camber as Nucci told me I would.
Pictures to come after the alignment, brake bleed, and a wash! It's duuuumped!
I measured the fender height... the driver side front is lower than the passenger side front.
The driver side rear is also lower than the passenger side rear...
RF 25.00
LF 24.75
RR 24.75
LR 24.50
I assume the driver side is lower to corner balance the car...but we'll see when it gets on the scales. Going to alignment tomorrow morning on the slicks
Good think the "GTR spec" Hunter rack @ the Volvo dealership is like 2 blocks away I had to dial in a bunch of toe out with the increased negative camber as Nucci told me I would.
Pictures to come after the alignment, brake bleed, and a wash! It's duuuumped!
Last edited by R/TErnie; Jul 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM.
Jul 6, 2010, 12:12 AM
#83
10k front and 12k rear.
Set up previously... going to corner balance tomorrow night.
The drivers side is a quarter inch lower than the passenger side. If you look above you can see the fender heights of all the corners. This is the way it was sent from the previous owner (Boosted9) Supposedly corner balanced and setup "ready to go" I should be on the scales here shortly.
I drove the car around a bit and slung it through a few corners... a little bit of rubbing that I need to chase down. I planned on raising the car a bit, but I'm waiting until I hit the scales otherwise I'm just making busy work for myself.
Set up previously... going to corner balance tomorrow night.
The drivers side is a quarter inch lower than the passenger side. If you look above you can see the fender heights of all the corners. This is the way it was sent from the previous owner (Boosted9) Supposedly corner balanced and setup "ready to go" I should be on the scales here shortly.
I drove the car around a bit and slung it through a few corners... a little bit of rubbing that I need to chase down. I planned on raising the car a bit, but I'm waiting until I hit the scales otherwise I'm just making busy work for myself.
Last edited by R/TErnie; Jul 13, 2010 at 09:14 PM.
Jul 6, 2010, 01:01 AM
#84
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Ya I would say it will go up a 1/2 inch on all corners really...
Typically with the evos I have corner weighted the passenger front is a 1/4'' lower due to the fact it is the heaviest corner. While the driver rear is a little lower then the passenger rear.
If you are not rubbing on fenders you are rubbing on the rear fender/ bumper bolt... and you will rub the fender liners and body seam in the front... Heat gun and BFH takes care of that.
If your going to pull your rear fenders for clearance (are they even rolled yet?) relocate the rear bumper/fender bolt before rolling/pulling them as they provide tension on the panel and will insure you buckle your quarter
I wish I knew what I know now... go really slow on the drivers side and go straight out while pulling but dont get greedy.
As far as ride heights insure you measure you pinch welds to the rear of the fronts and in front of the rears. The rake of the car shouldnt exceed an inch, (which your car probably is right now) keep it at the 1/2'' to 3/4'' range as this will insure that you will not encounter a somewhat snappy oversteer condition at the limit. I have encountered this with 8/9k spring rates and while it can help with slow AX courses I find it annoying. It seems the happy place for rake is in the aforementioned range. What this pretty much translates to in an easier to measure range is about a 1/2 inch greater ground to fender measurement in the fronts.
I hope this helped with your prelim. setup.
Typically with the evos I have corner weighted the passenger front is a 1/4'' lower due to the fact it is the heaviest corner. While the driver rear is a little lower then the passenger rear.
If you are not rubbing on fenders you are rubbing on the rear fender/ bumper bolt... and you will rub the fender liners and body seam in the front... Heat gun and BFH takes care of that.
If your going to pull your rear fenders for clearance (are they even rolled yet?) relocate the rear bumper/fender bolt before rolling/pulling them as they provide tension on the panel and will insure you buckle your quarter
I wish I knew what I know now... go really slow on the drivers side and go straight out while pulling but dont get greedy.
As far as ride heights insure you measure you pinch welds to the rear of the fronts and in front of the rears. The rake of the car shouldnt exceed an inch, (which your car probably is right now) keep it at the 1/2'' to 3/4'' range as this will insure that you will not encounter a somewhat snappy oversteer condition at the limit. I have encountered this with 8/9k spring rates and while it can help with slow AX courses I find it annoying. It seems the happy place for rake is in the aforementioned range. What this pretty much translates to in an easier to measure range is about a 1/2 inch greater ground to fender measurement in the fronts.
I hope this helped with your prelim. setup.
Last edited by bchappy; Jul 6, 2010 at 01:03 AM.
Jul 6, 2010, 10:17 AM
#85
replies within
I have to finish packing today, install the Ti shims, bleed the brakes, and see if I can get a solid pump gas tune on it. Otherwise I'll be running c16 :P I guess it just depends upon how much time I have.
Ya I would say it will go up a 1/2 inch on all corners really...
Typically with the evos I have corner weighted the passenger front is a 1/4'' lower due to the fact it is the heaviest corner. While the driver rear is a little lower then the passenger rear.
If you are not rubbing on fenders you are rubbing on the rear fender/ bumper bolt... and you will rub the fender liners and body seam in the front... Heat gun and BFH takes care of that.
I've been running these wheels with 265/35/18 for a while with lowering springs. So the "clearancing" and rolling has already taken place. I cut the rear piece and rolled F&R pretty aggressively. I used a heat gun, IR gun, and an Eastwood roller.
If your going to pull your rear fenders for clearance (are they even rolled yet?) relocate the rear bumper/fender bolt before rolling/pulling them as they provide tension on the panel and will insure you buckle your quarter
I wish I knew what I know now... go really slow on the drivers side and go straight out while pulling but dont get greedy.
I saw Kaymin's buckled quarters... (Orange Evo) and made note before I did mine
As far as ride heights insure you measure you pinch welds to the rear of the fronts and in front of the rears. The rake of the car shouldnt exceed an inch, (which your car probably is right now) keep it at the 1/2'' to 3/4'' range as this will insure that you will not encounter a somewhat snappy oversteer condition at the limit.
I will measure and take note. Thank you The car did not rotate prior... I mean AT ALL.
I have encountered this with 8/9k spring rates and while it can help with slow AX courses I find it annoying. It seems the happy place for rake is in the aforementioned range. What this pretty much translates to in an easier to measure range is about a 1/2 inch greater ground to fender measurement in the fronts.
sweet! Thanks good point of reference. I will measure from the pinch weld as you suggested.
I hope this helped with your prelim. setup.
Typically with the evos I have corner weighted the passenger front is a 1/4'' lower due to the fact it is the heaviest corner. While the driver rear is a little lower then the passenger rear.
If you are not rubbing on fenders you are rubbing on the rear fender/ bumper bolt... and you will rub the fender liners and body seam in the front... Heat gun and BFH takes care of that.
I've been running these wheels with 265/35/18 for a while with lowering springs. So the "clearancing" and rolling has already taken place. I cut the rear piece and rolled F&R pretty aggressively. I used a heat gun, IR gun, and an Eastwood roller.
If your going to pull your rear fenders for clearance (are they even rolled yet?) relocate the rear bumper/fender bolt before rolling/pulling them as they provide tension on the panel and will insure you buckle your quarter
I wish I knew what I know now... go really slow on the drivers side and go straight out while pulling but dont get greedy.
I saw Kaymin's buckled quarters... (Orange Evo) and made note before I did mine
As far as ride heights insure you measure you pinch welds to the rear of the fronts and in front of the rears. The rake of the car shouldnt exceed an inch, (which your car probably is right now) keep it at the 1/2'' to 3/4'' range as this will insure that you will not encounter a somewhat snappy oversteer condition at the limit.
I will measure and take note. Thank you
The car did not rotate prior... I mean AT ALL.I have encountered this with 8/9k spring rates and while it can help with slow AX courses I find it annoying. It seems the happy place for rake is in the aforementioned range. What this pretty much translates to in an easier to measure range is about a 1/2 inch greater ground to fender measurement in the fronts.
sweet! Thanks good point of reference. I will measure from the pinch weld as you suggested.
I hope this helped with your prelim. setup.
Jul 8, 2010, 11:07 PM
#87
We bested a time of 1:11.2 on the Hoosiers in the afternoon... Scotts last...and fastest lap judging by the check point times... was interrupted by our nemesis putting around the track...and not getting out of the way...with no intention of speeding up or moving. Bush league IMO... but whatever that's a lapping day for you. Scott was pretty heated when he came out of the car, but we know it was faster than the previous lap...so we know we're close.
The ride height was raised about 4 turns on the coilovers, but it certainly was not enough. If you look at the pictures above you can see the FLCA pointing down... roll center was about 2 inches below the ground AFTER we raised it. I have to raise it yet again! I played with the balance of the rake of the car and found a good ratio that allowed us to rotate the car on corner entrance by trail braking.
The new brakes...AMAZING!!! I still boiled the brake fluid on a few laps. I need to install those Ti shim and bleed again. I can only imagine what it would feel like to lose your brakes on the big track!
The Hoosiers... RETARDED grip. I love them! We had some rubbing issues in the rear with the rear trailing arm. I filed the trailing arm down and then trimmed the steel brackets for the ABS wiring and the e-brake mount. That still wasn't enough. We ended up borrowing some 3mm spacers from Jared (jid2) THANK YOU SIR!!! I owe you dinner. Jared stopped, moved all his cars around, jacked his car up, took the spacers off, and let me borrow them for the afternoon! HUGE thanks I owe you dinner or something.
We haven't played with the dampers yet... just left them on full stiff...I think I'm going to soften up the front... just a WAG at this point.
I didn't get a chance to corner balance the car before this event. I'm going to set ride height based on my rake that I liked and the proper LCA geometry. Then corner balance it.
The car still plowed like a pig through it's own **** on "ON THROTTLE" corner exit. It was more manageable than before, but still bad. Maybe the correct ride height will help this, however I feel that it will not make as a significant enough difference to provide the results I'm looking for. We're giving up a lot of time having to wait to get on throttle...especially with the turbo setup... the delay is compounded! To fix this I ordered the Gruppe-S ACD "Race" flash... I can get it in a few days and we'll see if its significant enough. If that doesn't allow me to rotate the car with the loud pedal...its time for a TRE diff! I'm skeptical that the flash will do what I want, but it might make it better. Only time will tell.
The engine still hasn't been tuned. This is simply unforgivable being that's what I'm actually good at lol. I'm hoping to score some time at Drift office to dial in the 114-L tune (its about half as expensive as C16) I would honestly like to switch to E85, but again...time is a factor. Maybe I'll switch to E85 when I put the green on The car is only running 24psi of boost right now, and I've run 28-30psi on pump gas before, so I'm leaving SOME on the table. One could argue the turbo is out of breath and I would agree. I've got an ETS intercooler core on the way to help with the hot air I'll be producing. I would estimate i'm leaving 30-40whp on the table judging by the AFR and ignition map. I won't go into how terrible it is, but I could be doing better
Last but certainly not least I weighed the car on the way back. With a full tank of gas I was 3160 full weight. My weight reduction will be 210 pounds. I won't stop until I'm at 210, so we'll grab the low hanging fruit and move up from there. Target weight is 2950. With my fat **** we'll be at 3120 w/ driver. I need to run more :P
In summary,
ACD reflash on the way, 210 pounds less, 30 more HP, better suspension setup. My acceleration calculations estimated that the car is capable of a 1:09:54 with Scott driving...and probably a low 1:12 with me driving.
Besides the car... I closed the gap on Scott more this time... I think with more seat time I'd start to drop time. We walked the course with Bundy afterwards and I think I see a few places for improvement. Jared also gave me a few pointers that got me to think about it from an engineering standpoint... certainly helped!
It's really funny how the SCCA autocross guys who run the "Super stock" class brag about how fast their stock car is... With slicks, some dynamo brake pads and fluid.... you can shed copious amounts of time. Especially if you start out with a capable car like the z06. Of course there is a lot of driving skill to boot, but the slicks put the cars into a new realm of retard grip that cannot be touched by "street tires." I have a whole new appreciation for the R-comps. Sorry if I throw you off by calling them "slicks" a certain suspension shop who will remain nameless laughed at me when I called the R6's a slick... and he said " what tire are you running?" R6 sir... "oh I thought you were running a slick... thats just an R compound...haha" Such a belittling *******...I'm amazed anyone deals with him.
I'm blabbing. If you read though all that crap, you should PROBABLY go to bed lol.
Thanks to Russel @ Mitsubishi parts for getting me some BSPT plugs and new suspension bolts! I really appreciate your help.
Thanks to Aaron and Lucas @ English Racing. Again you guys are always there to bounce ridiculous ideas off of!
Mike K for waiting for his turbine housing while I work on my car! Freddie would be proud lol.
Guillaume and Ben @ 2020 Motorsports for their continued support and assistance!
Martin @ Girodisc for the hookup on the brakes. Thank you for teaching me a few things!
Matt Nucci @ Hexcel for his unwavering support and patience while teaching me how dumb I am when it comes to suspension!
Jared D. (jid2) for the spacers and advice! Also for telling us about the smoke! Can't say how much I appreciate you coming out to take a peak. Your car is ridiculous!
Mike, JR, Erica, and Chris @ ETS. You guys are great. Thanks especially to Mike for getting me my super picky specific intercooler core size and my double beaded tubing!
Wouldn't be complete without thanking Scooter (co-driver) for helping put the suspension on, the support vehicle, and being one hell of a wheel man even when he was sick!
I'm going to bed! I should be back in the garage working on the car HOPEFULLY on sunday if the fabrication goes swimmingly this weekend.
The ride height was raised about 4 turns on the coilovers, but it certainly was not enough. If you look at the pictures above you can see the FLCA pointing down... roll center was about 2 inches below the ground AFTER we raised it. I have to raise it yet again! I played with the balance of the rake of the car and found a good ratio that allowed us to rotate the car on corner entrance by trail braking.
The new brakes...AMAZING!!! I still boiled the brake fluid on a few laps. I need to install those Ti shim and bleed again. I can only imagine what it would feel like to lose your brakes on the big track!
The Hoosiers... RETARDED grip. I love them! We had some rubbing issues in the rear with the rear trailing arm. I filed the trailing arm down and then trimmed the steel brackets for the ABS wiring and the e-brake mount. That still wasn't enough. We ended up borrowing some 3mm spacers from Jared (jid2) THANK YOU SIR!!! I owe you dinner. Jared stopped, moved all his cars around, jacked his car up, took the spacers off, and let me borrow them for the afternoon! HUGE thanks
I owe you dinner or something. We haven't played with the dampers yet... just left them on full stiff...I think I'm going to soften up the front... just a WAG at this point.
I didn't get a chance to corner balance the car before this event. I'm going to set ride height based on my rake that I liked and the proper LCA geometry. Then corner balance it.
The car still plowed like a pig through it's own **** on "ON THROTTLE" corner exit. It was more manageable than before, but still bad. Maybe the correct ride height will help this, however I feel that it will not make as a significant enough difference to provide the results I'm looking for. We're giving up a lot of time having to wait to get on throttle...especially with the turbo setup... the delay is compounded! To fix this I ordered the Gruppe-S ACD "Race" flash... I can get it in a few days and we'll see if its significant enough. If that doesn't allow me to rotate the car with the loud pedal...its time for a TRE diff! I'm skeptical that the flash will do what I want, but it might make it better. Only time will tell.
The engine still hasn't been tuned. This is simply unforgivable being that's what I'm actually good at lol. I'm hoping to score some time at Drift office to dial in the 114-L tune (its about half as expensive as C16) I would honestly like to switch to E85, but again...time is a factor. Maybe I'll switch to E85 when I put the green on
The car is only running 24psi of boost right now, and I've run 28-30psi on pump gas before, so I'm leaving SOME on the table. One could argue the turbo is out of breath and I would agree. I've got an ETS intercooler core on the way to help with the hot air I'll be producing. I would estimate i'm leaving 30-40whp on the table judging by the AFR and ignition map. I won't go into how terrible it is, but I could be doing better Last but certainly not least I weighed the car on the way back. With a full tank of gas I was 3160 full weight. My weight reduction will be 210 pounds. I won't stop until I'm at 210, so we'll grab the low hanging fruit and move up from there. Target weight is 2950. With my fat **** we'll be at 3120 w/ driver. I need to run more :P
In summary,
ACD reflash on the way, 210 pounds less, 30 more HP, better suspension setup. My acceleration calculations estimated that the car is capable of a 1:09:54 with Scott driving...and probably a low 1:12 with me driving.
Besides the car... I closed the gap on Scott more this time... I think with more seat time I'd start to drop time. We walked the course with Bundy afterwards and I think I see a few places for improvement. Jared also gave me a few pointers that got me to think about it from an engineering standpoint... certainly helped!
It's really funny how the SCCA autocross guys who run the "Super stock" class brag about how fast their stock car is... With slicks, some dynamo brake pads and fluid.... you can shed copious amounts of time. Especially if you start out with a capable car like the z06. Of course there is a lot of driving skill to boot, but the slicks put the cars into a new realm of retard grip that cannot be touched by "street tires." I have a whole new appreciation for the R-comps. Sorry if I throw you off by calling them "slicks" a certain suspension shop who will remain nameless laughed at me when I called the R6's a slick... and he said " what tire are you running?" R6 sir... "oh I thought you were running a slick... thats just an R compound...haha" Such a belittling *******...I'm amazed anyone deals with him.
I'm blabbing. If you read though all that crap, you should PROBABLY go to bed lol.
Thanks to Russel @ Mitsubishi parts for getting me some BSPT plugs and new suspension bolts! I really appreciate your help.
Thanks to Aaron and Lucas @ English Racing. Again you guys are always there to bounce ridiculous ideas off of!
Mike K for waiting for his turbine housing while I work on my car! Freddie would be proud lol.
Guillaume and Ben @ 2020 Motorsports for their continued support and assistance!
Martin @ Girodisc for the hookup on the brakes. Thank you for teaching me a few things!
Matt Nucci @ Hexcel for his unwavering support and patience while teaching me how dumb I am when it comes to suspension!
Jared D. (jid2) for the spacers and advice! Also for telling us about the smoke! Can't say how much I appreciate you coming out to take a peak. Your car is ridiculous!
Mike, JR, Erica, and Chris @ ETS. You guys are great. Thanks especially to Mike for getting me my super picky specific intercooler core size and my double beaded tubing!
Wouldn't be complete without thanking Scooter (co-driver) for helping put the suspension on, the support vehicle, and being one hell of a wheel man even when he was sick!
I'm going to bed! I should be back in the garage working on the car HOPEFULLY on sunday if the fabrication goes swimmingly this weekend.
Last edited by R/TErnie; Jul 8, 2010 at 11:09 PM.
Jul 9, 2010, 07:42 AM
#89
^ Certainly advantages (cheap and easy) and disadvantages to that....really good dampers would be a must have at that point IMO so maybe it's not so cheap. And you'll probably still end up wanting some roll center correction. But it's not a terrible idea....it could help but the "problem" is still there.
- Andrew
- Andrew
Jul 9, 2010, 08:14 AM
#90
Damn Eric you sound busy my friend! Totally new ball game for raod racing huh! Anyway I ordered a bunch of crap for my car last week and put it all on and ripped it right back off last night... I will have to give you a call this weekend and chat. Working on the car in the garage in 95* heat is definitely not fun, I miss SOME of the weather in WA!
Oh... forgot to add, I am glad that you are finally taking time to work on some of your projects! I can't believe you skimped on tuning the damn thing! And also to add, switching to E85 is about the easiest thing in the world... With the ID1000s and a single 255 will get you some reliable HP! and you can just run it on track days...
Oh... forgot to add, I am glad that you are finally taking time to work on some of your projects! I can't believe you skimped on tuning the damn thing! And also to add, switching to E85 is about the easiest thing in the world... With the ID1000s and a single 255 will get you some reliable HP! and you can just run it on track days...
Last edited by Fast_Freddie; Jul 9, 2010 at 08:17 AM.