PIC Coilovers vs Stance GR+ Pro
Aug 2, 2010, 12:44 PM
#16
Just wanted to add that they were never raced, only daily driven. They blew before I got a chance to beat on them. And, the shocks were purchased directly from Touge Factory. I made my claim with them within their specified warranty period, and was denied. Their reason for denial is still unknown.
Just wanted to put my experience with them up here. The guys from Touge Factory were very nice and helpful until I made my warranty claim..
Just wanted to put my experience with them up here. The guys from Touge Factory were very nice and helpful until I made my warranty claim..
Aug 4, 2010, 12:30 PM
#21
I have a few friends running them and they all track/autox/DD with no problems. They are also pretty affordable. I mean if I had money for KWs I would buy them but at the moment I don't. I understand that a set of your springs would give me a lot better performance but I can't stand the ride height for DDing.
Aug 4, 2010, 12:51 PM
#23
Then, why not choose a car that responds better to this sort of thing? I'm not tying to put you on the spot. Clearly, you chose an Evo for a reason and that reason was most likely based on its performance envelope. By trying to make the car conform to an individual idea of aesthetics, that same performance envelope that drove the initial purchase is diminished, leaving one with a car that performs worse than stock with looks that still won't fully please. Lose-lose.
Aug 4, 2010, 01:21 PM
#24
Then, why not choose a car that responds better to this sort of thing? I'm not tying to put you on the spot. Clearly, you chose an Evo for a reason and that reason was most likely based on its performance envelope. By trying to make the car conform to an individual idea of aesthetics, that same performance envelope that drove the initial purchase is diminished, leaving one with a car that performs worse than stock with looks that still won't fully please. Lose-lose.
Aug 4, 2010, 01:24 PM
#25
- Andrew
Aug 4, 2010, 01:30 PM
#26
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The answer to that is "it depends." I certainly prefer GTWORX springs with Bilsteins as a fun street set-up with some light track and auto-x work thrown in. That's me and i guess I'm biased, but that's my experience and the way I like my suspension. You gotta choose what's important to you.
- Andrew
- Andrew
Aug 5, 2010, 08:21 AM
#27
If the GTworx springs alone can mimic the handling performance of the R2 PICs, I'd be very impressed.
My suspension is stock other then the PICs. It is only about 1" lower then stock and an alignment that is only marginally more aggressive then stock. The car handles like a RWD but with nearly unlimited traction out of the corners. It NEVER understeers and has a VERY predictable and controllable amount of oversteer on throttle. The "limit" is MUCH higher than stock on dry pavement. Even with winter tires it will out handle a stock MR on good rubber by a good margin.
I also had a BMW 325i with Eibach coil-overs, adjustable sway-bars, bushings, etc. and the EVO with just PICs was a better balanced car, IMO. The BMW was more neutral because of the 50/50 weight, but as far as how it felt, the EVO was far better and just fells the way a RWD should feel.
The only real downfall to the high spring rates of the PICs is that in the wet/snow, it is VERY loose. It's rally all the way and linking 3-point turns is effortless, Scandinavian flicks will have the car point 90 degrees to the previous direction of travel in an instant. I LOVE the way it handles, but some people may find it a little unnerving in the wet.
The major complaint I have with them is the weight though. They are as heavy as the stock suspension. If I can find an aluminum bodied setup that I could get with the same spring rates, I’d buy them. D2s are about the only ones I can find that met that requirement that are fairly inexpensive. I don't care about winning a national championship, so $3000 coil overs are out of the question.
Maybe the GTworx would be faster? Feel wise though, I think it would be pretty hard to top the PIC R2s from a performance aspect. Better shocks I'm sure would be more kind on the streets though.
My suspension is stock other then the PICs. It is only about 1" lower then stock and an alignment that is only marginally more aggressive then stock. The car handles like a RWD but with nearly unlimited traction out of the corners. It NEVER understeers and has a VERY predictable and controllable amount of oversteer on throttle. The "limit" is MUCH higher than stock on dry pavement. Even with winter tires it will out handle a stock MR on good rubber by a good margin.
I also had a BMW 325i with Eibach coil-overs, adjustable sway-bars, bushings, etc. and the EVO with just PICs was a better balanced car, IMO. The BMW was more neutral because of the 50/50 weight, but as far as how it felt, the EVO was far better and just fells the way a RWD should feel.
The only real downfall to the high spring rates of the PICs is that in the wet/snow, it is VERY loose. It's rally all the way and linking 3-point turns is effortless, Scandinavian flicks will have the car point 90 degrees to the previous direction of travel in an instant. I LOVE the way it handles, but some people may find it a little unnerving in the wet.
The major complaint I have with them is the weight though. They are as heavy as the stock suspension. If I can find an aluminum bodied setup that I could get with the same spring rates, I’d buy them. D2s are about the only ones I can find that met that requirement that are fairly inexpensive. I don't care about winning a national championship, so $3000 coil overs are out of the question.
Maybe the GTworx would be faster? Feel wise though, I think it would be pretty hard to top the PIC R2s from a performance aspect. Better shocks I'm sure would be more kind on the streets though.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Aug 5, 2010 at 08:26 AM.
Aug 5, 2010, 10:26 AM
#28
I would prefer the PICs over the D2's. Actually I'd prefer stock over the D2's. Stock and I had to drive with my ex in the front seat, her parents in the backseat, with all of them screaming at me....I'd still choose that over the D2's.
I don't know what would happen comparing our springs to the R2's....our springs are almost half that in rate. On a super smooth track with both cars using r-comps, the R2's would probably be faster. In the real world on bumpy streets or track surfaces you might enjoy the GTWORX springs more. They're awesome but are not THAT aggressive in comparison.
- Andrew
I don't know what would happen comparing our springs to the R2's....our springs are almost half that in rate. On a super smooth track with both cars using r-comps, the R2's would probably be faster. In the real world on bumpy streets or track surfaces you might enjoy the GTWORX springs more. They're awesome but are not THAT aggressive in comparison.
- Andrew
Aug 5, 2010, 11:50 AM
#29
Yeah, I need to take a spin in an EVO with softer rates and more aggressive anti-sway bars. I may be surprised by the results as the majority of my experience with that type of setup has not been on EVOs.
What specifically was the issue with the D2s?
My BMW was similar to what you suggest, it used progressive spring rates that seemed relatively soft but I can't find any spec on them. It also used 30mm front bar and 25mm back bar, so although the platform is different, it was a softer spring/stiffer bar setup. The car obviously rode better, but there is no comparison on all out cornering performance on the street between the BMW and EVO with the PICs. It's all opinion, but if you took power out of the equation, I think that my old BMW would out handle an EVO MR on equal tires so it handled pretty well, but like I said, it didn't hold a candle to the stiff sprung EVO.
I know people talk about rough roads messing with stiff setups, but honestly, bumps really don't upset the car much on this setup. Yes, they will unload the tires and you will loose some traction momentarily, but it recovers very quickly and, for me anyway, it's not all that difficult to deal with. Being softer, or at least maybe getting some more rebound travel, might be very beneficial though.
What specifically was the issue with the D2s?
My BMW was similar to what you suggest, it used progressive spring rates that seemed relatively soft but I can't find any spec on them. It also used 30mm front bar and 25mm back bar, so although the platform is different, it was a softer spring/stiffer bar setup. The car obviously rode better, but there is no comparison on all out cornering performance on the street between the BMW and EVO with the PICs. It's all opinion, but if you took power out of the equation, I think that my old BMW would out handle an EVO MR on equal tires so it handled pretty well, but like I said, it didn't hold a candle to the stiff sprung EVO.
I know people talk about rough roads messing with stiff setups, but honestly, bumps really don't upset the car much on this setup. Yes, they will unload the tires and you will loose some traction momentarily, but it recovers very quickly and, for me anyway, it's not all that difficult to deal with. Being softer, or at least maybe getting some more rebound travel, might be very beneficial though.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Aug 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM.