JDavenport

iTrader: (33)

I started track driving this year in my Evo. So I am a relative track noob. But I have already learned a lot about driving and preparing a car for track usage. Perhaps nowhere have I been as surprised and been forced to learn as quickly as brakes. If you drive an Evo aggressively on the track, the car is hard on brakes. A solid bolt on Evo with a good tune can generate a lot of speed in straightaways. That just means more energy the brakes have to absorb as you approach a corner. This means HEAT, and a lot of it.

After trying some ‘street/track’ pads I realized this approach was not going to work for me. As I became a better driver and started compressing braking zones, the nature of these pads reared its head. I tried Racing Brake ET700’s and Ferodo DS2500’s. I found it easy to generate fade with these pads. Both were fine until I started to push and really lean on the brakes, late and hard carrying all the speed I could into a corner. Of the two the ET700’s were a little better and I would call them a decent ‘light’ track day pad. Some people may never need more, some may find their limits pretty quickly. The DS2500’s were even easier to heat up and make spongy with fade. These are just not track pads.

So I bit the bullet and decided it was time to buy a track setup. After doing a good bit of reading and research I ended up with the following:
Pads: Carbotech XP12’s (Front) and XP10’s (Rear)
Rotors: Dba 4000 Slotted Front and Rear
Front Cooling Ducts from Binary Eng. With Mishimoto 2” Silicone Ducting
I already have Racing Brake SS Lines and run ATE Superblue Fluid, flushed and bled after each event.




So loaded with this new setup I went to an HPDE at Nashville Super Speedway on Aug 21. The track there is a ‘Roval’ (Road course built in a Tri-Oval) and is moderately hard on brakes. It was hot (97 degF) and very humid. I went out on some backroads the night before and did a bedding exactly by the Carbotech instructions. So I hit the track ready to see what I had now.

The NSS layout has the following braking areas, 135-90 for turn 1, 95-35 for turn 2, 65-35 for turn 3, 95-55 for turn 7 and 80-50 for turn 9 (speeds are approximate, I don’t study the speedo when I’m driving). My lap times are in the 1:14-1:16 range. The car is an Evo IX, basic bolt-ons (335 awhp) with the Bilstien/SpecR setup and an AP 27mm RSB. Dunlop 255/40/17 Star Spec Z1’s.

First impression, wow! After the pads warmed up the initial bite was way harder than the other pads I’ve tried. This takes some getting used to. First couple of sessions I bumped ABS quite a bit getting used to the bite these pads have. These brakes can easily overpower the Z1’s. Second thing I noticed is how firm the pedal stays. Going from moderate braking to bumping the ABS involves almost no pedal movement, just a little more pressure. This proved to be very helpful performing toe-heel downshifts while braking late and hard. I have a large (14-4E) foot and use the rocker method where the ball of my foot is on the brake pedal while I pivot the outside edge to blip the throttle. Much easier with this firm high brake pedal. Also, pressing the brakes all the way into lockup territory only required a fraction of the pedal effort of the other pads.

Later in the day as I got used to the new brakes, I really started to push my braking compression to see how they would hold up. This was the first time I took my car to the track and drove as hard as I could without finding brake fade. Rock steady the whole time.

This would not make a good street setup. The XP12’s in the front do squeal, loudly at times. And once they are warmed up that initial bite is pretty aggressive for street driving. But I bought this setup for track driving, and I am very pleased.

The picture below shows my DS2500’s from the front and my Carbotech XP12’s. Both pads have one track day on them at the same track. I babied the DS2500’s on the track, because I was generating brake fade as soon as I started really pushing. I took no mercy on the Carbotechs. I drove the car as hard as I am currently capable of. The difference on wear tells the story.


I want to thank Ken (EvoBrakes on here) for answering a lot of questions and providing very good pricing on the Dba rotors and Carbotech Pads. Combined with the Front Bake cooling ducts, this is a setup that will allow me to worry about driving and know that the brakes are there when I need them.

Here's the 4th session of the day with this setup:

http://vimeo.com/14348848

lttletimmy

iTrader: (11)

Nice review, I've always run carbotech pads on the track with all my cars and have nothing but great things to say about them! What made you go with XP12s in the front? I would have thought XP10s would have been sufficient.

Smike

iTrader: (8)

Nice review! Looking forward to hearing about more track days!

grillpt

iTrader: (24)

Very nice review, thanks for sharing.

JDavenport

iTrader: (33)

I went with the XP12's because these are just track brakes and I wanted a good margin of high temp range on the fronts. In June at TGP, the guy pitting next to me with an IR gun got a reading in the 970's off my front rotors after a cool down lap. At the time I was running the ET700's which are rated for 1200 degF, and I basically destroyed them in that one track day.

So I figure that as I keep progressing as a driver, I'd like some 'headroom' on the MOT of the pads.

L888Apex

iTrader: (94)

nice review I'll be looking into these or some RCE pads once my RB ET800's are almost dead

gonna subscribe for future reference

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

Nice to hear someone else treating their Evo like it should. Point of no return... You'll have it wearing slicks and gutting the interior before you know it!

In all seriousness, I'd suggest changing out that fluid. ATE is fine, but there's a lot better products for track days. Motul, AMSOIL DOT4 & Castrol SRF to name a few. The latter 2 will NOT need to be bled every weekend. Trust me, I know how much of a PITA it is to bleed every weekend and I used to do it.
I think you'll be happy with AMSOIL DOT4 as it's a fraction of the SRF.

Are those DBA 4000's directionally veined? If not, I'd look into those if you wanna stick with a 1-piece setup. They really really help cooling. Or goto a lighter and cooler (temps) setup with 2-piece down the road.

JDavenport

iTrader: (33)

The Dba's use their 'Kangaroo Paw' directonal vanes, so yes they are vaned.

2-pc units will happen at some point, but the budget will have to allow for it. I dropped a wad earlier this year when the tcase death whine hit me up. So I went Shep stage 3 with Quaife Tcase and had the tranny built as well (Shot peening, ear detail work, micro polishing). All that with a new clutch sorta hurt the Evo play money

I've got a Motive Speed bleeder which greatly helps with the routine bleeding. But I am going to give the Amsoil DOT 4 a try.

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

I've got the Motive bleeder too. Only used it twice this year over 14 events! That AMSOIL DOT4 is gold.

Sounds good on the rotors. You'll probably be just dandy with those for a long time. I just ran through a set of Powerslot directionally veined & slotted rotors. They lasted me all 14 events (to this point) this year and are shot. No cooling problems though; all good.

Shiny side up.........

apagan01

iTrader: (299)

good thread and reviews

socalmr

iTrader: (11)

amsoil dot 4 is the shizt! i just recent made the switch and it honestly felt like i upgraded a brake component. i was on motul rbf600 prior.
as for brake pads, i use raybestos st-43 for track and stoptechs for street. once i got use to the st-43 it just feels like everything else is inferior, but i have no experience with carbotech.
anyhow great review...

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

Nice write up. Those XP-12's have a LOT of bite, especially for street tires, as you found out. I'm surprised they would recommend them for your setup. Did you call anyone @ Carbotech and ask them about your setup and what pads would work best for you?

Im running XP-10s on the EVO and the first time out to the road course with them I experienced the same instant ABS trigger you did. I never felt that with the Z06 and it took me a couple session to figure the solution out. It wasn't how I was braking, it was the brake bais. Let me take a guess here; you're running the DS2500's in the rear, correct? I was, and the fix was to install the carbotech XP8's in the rear (or for you the XP10's, since you have the 12s). Once I had XP-10s in the front and the XP-8's in the rear the ABS button went away and I could brake HARD again! HTH's.

JDavenport

iTrader: (33)

No, the DS2500's come off the car for track days. If you read above I, am running XP12's front with XP10's rear.

I went with XP12/10's because I wanted a lot of bite with moderate pedal effort. Makes it a lot easier for me to smoothly execute toe-heel downshifts.

1st session was like Woah, holy s$@! these things bite. 2nd session was OK, I can get used to this. 3rd session was getting into 'let me start pushing this setup on braking'.

Loaded up the DS2500's and found myself almost driving through stop signs, gotta plain old mash on them by comparison.

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

ahh, somehow I missed the part where you said the XP-10s were in the rear.

I would attribute that to the aggressive nature of the XP-12 compound then. Thats why I use XP10... they're great with my Z1's or the A6's or R6's. Did you call Carbotech and tell them your setup? I'm really surprised they would recommend such an aggressive combo for a street tire car like that.

rawkus

iTrader: (16)

Nice review, my friend has Carbotech XP 12's and loves them on this Z06. I myself run Girodisc Rotors and Raybest ST43's on the Time Attack car. As for Amsoil Brake Fluid, I won't say it isn't good, because it is, but I boiled that at Autobahn Country Club this summer. I am going back to ATE Super Blue as anything we seem to run needs to be bleed consistently. I have also run Motul RBF600.

On a side note, brake ducting has helped dramatically, and I recommend it for everyone (noticed you had that already, good job!) and adding Girodisc Titanium shims also helped... but we still get our brakes amazingly hot.

Here is a video from the Time Attack Evo at Nashville last year, it includes a 1:09 and some change time... I hope we run again there soon as I am pretty sure the car is about 3-4 seconds faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGtMUq2XSsY

Dan