We've finished 4th overall (out of at least 100 cars running in standing water) in a ~70whp sh!tbox on stock suspension. This was SCCA. It's not the car.

 

SmikeEVO, I generally say this, but you drill down on everything I said, which is fine, but so every everything about coilovers you have painted with a pretty broad brush. While I dont have the vast amount of experience you seem to be drawing from. Try to flush out your points a little further so those who want to learn something, can.

You pulled from two different things in the previous post. I made reference to Rick Chong. Perhaps you have something to say about his Styling modifications? I know him personally and he designs some pretty good stuff in my opinion. Now the point I made wasn't anything to do with his custom mod styling / bodywork but the fact that he himself has been impressed with the HSD coilovers and has started selling it. Drawing from his own experience with cars, he seems to think its a pretty good product. He normally doesn't sell anything but bodykit mods, and he felt it was good sense to sell these specific coilovers.

Which brings me back to the original point I made before. It seems everyone I talk to about this specific coilover has nothing but praise for them for various reasons. But to keep things balanced in my mind, I did take notice of what you said and took your opinion on the Spring rates to be genuine. But when I ask other's (people in the industry, semi pro time attack drivers, right up to Rally competitors and the consensus I am told there really isn't such thing as the perfect spring rate setup. Manufacturers do generally do their homework and produce coilovers based on what they think they can sell.



Tein for example took the approach many years ago to design a very wide range of coilover's that suited each unique type of need or want. And for the most part I think they have been very successful right up until the era of cheap knock offs and mega mass production of various lower quality coilovers. Stepping back from the Macro industry look, specific coilover's will have valving and spring rates for what you want it to do. There are compromises at almost every turn. Do you favor full balanced track performance, or maybe the lowest drop possible. Perhaps something that is track capable yet street-able. That doesnt even begin to bring cost / value into the equation. I am willing to listen, and draw knowledge from anyone. But to say that a kit has the wrong spring rates and thats the end of that. Doesnt help me as well as others on the forum make a decision on coilovers.

My final point I wanted to raise, is not really to defend one brand over another, but if you dont know anything about a coilover how can you make a quality comment based on how a kit looks. As with many thing we see now a days looks can be deceiving. The reason why I make this point is the fact that, I have sent countless emails and contacts to people I dont even know and asked them, hey. Do you own this kit, what do you think. And if you give them a chance to talk about it, you will start to see hear very consistent points. Based on your remarks about that UK company, you dont like drifting. LOL, thats fine, to each their own right. But while the company seems to be focused on Drifting, but do cater to Time attack track cars. They have been selling a streetable track kit and a balanced spring rate option for a while and have a pretty good approval based on credible online reviews. Now if I were to assess you previous response that all these reviews are subjective is on thing. But if a guy who competes on a regular basis is praising it. What am I to think? Are all these people crazy, or perhaps inexperienced?

I am very much open to hear what your take is on everything, I am sure everyone here is. Dont take my questions to be rude or that I am driving home some killer agenda. I run a car club, I have about a question a day coming my way from people who want to learn more about suspension. I recommend things as I see it. I really dont have much to gain. But there are certain products that are good, and some that are on a different level. I feel this way about a lot of things. Right down to what oil I run, brakes I would buy, to what suspension or tires go on my car. Ironically, it was all the buzz about the HSD kit for the 7 8 9 from the UK that made me consider the kit in the first place.

 

Full throttle on an autox is so minimal that power is a small factor. If power won the races I wouldn't be getting my *** handed to me by Miata's.

 

If you can't beat um, join um.

 

I plan to take off my whack megan racing track coilovers and get some ohlins very soon now only if i can find 4k lol

 

I could hardly justify spending $350 on a re-valve and $300 on springs. What are you doing with your car that you need to spend $4,000 on coil overs.

 

Go look at a dyno graph from both power levels. If you make a lot of low end power on that FP Red...then you have more power to use at the same RPM.

And yes, you do go WOT a lot in AX. Once you get more experience you'll find everywhere you can use WOT, you will.

I'll answer your PM privately.

----

I don't really care to even answer this. Just tired of "OMG, everyone says they are great! Buy them. Oh, I sell them too." from vendors.

I advocate for the consumer to do their own research.

Again - based on ______. See my statement above. I work in an industry that requires proof and data. Speculation, lots of that in the forums, wastes time and money. And you're telling me, a guy that doesn't sell anything buy body kits miraculously knows top quality / well setup coil-overs. Just think that over for a bit.

Perfect - no. Good starting point - yes. Example - 9k front 6k rear is far from a good starting point for the CT9A. Puts the consumer at a disadvantage to get the car to where he/she wants it. Every driver has a different preference to car feel. Shooting yourself in the foot and having to dig out of a bad setup will make the driver annoyed and want to change the system. A good coilover system will be with the car/driver for years.

Here is a good example - Megan Racing. Their street kit started off backwards. But someone over there thought it through and its now at a better starting point. At least as far as rates go.

Back to my statement, you're trying to sell a product. You're a vendor. Thats what vendors are here to do. But if you're going to come to the CT9A; its best to have your ducks in a row and understand you're product (first statement).

Using the word generally is dangerous. Manufactures generally make a product as cheaply as they can to make the most profit they can. In the coil-over world, that means common inserts, broad valving, eleven-billiondy clicks of adjustment, and Chinese springs. Customer has a failure. No problem. Just ship another ____ part. Why is that so easy? They have a bucket of them.

I am not saying everyone should go out and get a JRZ system. I am saying they should look and cover all angles. Do these rates put me in a good starting position for tuning my car? Will the tires I am using be well matched? What kind of handling do I like (loose/tight)? Etc.

If all you care about is slamming the car / hellafluch / hellastretch. To the hell of geometry - good on you. I personally think thats idiotic. But not my car. (Stretched tire is possibly the worst offender. But Darwinist in me says let them ride. Hopefully, they just take out themselves when the tire unseats from the rim).

If you think you need coil-overs as your first modification to be a better driver. You need more seat time and to learn more about the racing you do. 95% of the time, someone says "I am looking to do X to my car. I might track once this summer." Seen that 100x. I tell that person, just swap pads and fluids. Go to track. Use that mod money to mod the driver. Then mod the car.

If you've been running AX/HPDE/TT for a while, then you've likely done all your homework and know what you are looking for.

Drifting is not automotive racing. Yes, my opinion. Its figure skating in a car. It's like "Oh, ice hockey, thats a rough sport. But I do fancy figure skating. So pretty."

You missed one...or perhaps sponsored...but going from figu..I mean drifting to time trial...its the same as putting a helmet on a figure skater and telling her - good luck. Am I sponsored, in the industry? Yes. Will I run a product or for a company I don't support 100% - hell no. If something sucked for me; I tell the company. And I wont praise it. Is everyone out there like that - doubtful.

Not much to gain? You do sell things right? Not attacking you as a vendor. For the consumer on this forum. And since I am no longer on the Staff. I can talk freely about that point. Which is why I write now. In the past, I had to keep mum.

My bottom line: You think coil-overs are needed on your car. Dive in to the information at your figure tips. Ask yourself a lot of questions. Look at the total (big) picture. What is your goal? Do some backwards design. Think about where you want to be. Figure out how to get there.

 

I will try to keep this one topic, forgive if this goes a little off the path

For the record, I am actually not a vendor. 2 years ago, evolutionm.net allowed our Toronto Lancer Car Club to join evolutionm.net. and we had our own section created. I then spent a good long while arguing (in a friendly way) with evolutionm.net Moderator staff and Admins over local group buys and organized commerce. This constantly resulted in threads being deleted or locked. So I had to make a choice, stay on evom or go. worked out an agreement to pay for vendor status so that I was able to organized local group buys and commerce on behalf of the car club. My own money. I sell EVO X style license plate mounts to Lancer owners on Ebay and dont really advertise that in my local forum area nor on the greater forum. Why do I do it. Because I like my local community.

I personally do not sell this kit, nor do I profit when someone I am affiliated with sells it. I mentioned Rick Chong because he has been thrilled with the kit and he sells it. I have a strong opinion about certain products. Especially when I have personal experience. If I think something is a killer deal, I speak my mind. Its no different when I was a big proponent of the Conti DWS. I pushed that tire right from the start. When I saw and experienced what it could do in snow, I was all over it.

Long before tirerack had it ranked, I thought it was going to be the best tire of all. By no means do I think I am the smart guy. I can be wrong about a few things too. But what drives me is that I want to learn. So don`t think I am ribbing you just to cause a fire, or just be difficult. I am pretty open minded and actually try to expand my knowledge. There is a lot of what you said that I respect and expands the scope of my understanding. Regardless of how little or large good information is something to chew on and think about it.

As I have always said, I do not have personal experience with the EVO 7 8 9 platform, only the EVO X and Lancer. So I differ to the feedback of everyone hear to understand the car. If you say there is a disconnect. I ask questions as to why or how. I talk to those around me and those in the respective industry. I have talked to countless people both pro and semi amateur ish weekend tuners. And the feedback of the kit seems to not be in line with what you are saying. This isnt to say you are wrong. I as your average Canadian guy with too much time on my hands is just try to figure it all out. I look at the balance of feedback like this example http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=370986 in the UK and it makes me think and ultimately ask more questions.

 

So let me get this straight. You don't have an Evo (CT9A). You don't sell this HSDs. You just think they are rocking because someone said so? Its all subjective feedback. Hey, I like cookies. Lots of other people like cookies. By-the-way, HSDs are the bestest coilovers. -- Thats the leap we're making here.

Chassis on X and CT9A are completely different.

That link shows absolutely nothing of value. And they talk about having blows, noises, and issues they are "sorting out". I see no reputable "semi-pro drivers" either.

And just for reference Conti DWS - S is for light snow...marketed as such, it best be able to do light snow work.

 

Holy crap! all these paragraphs and its not a write up lol

 

I think I have already acknowledge this before. lol Its actually pretty sad, the EVO 8 and 9 were not admissible in Canada up until recently. Now Canada finally gets one of the greatest cars ever made. So my knowledge with this platform isnt based on personal hands on experience. For other cars, I have driven on HSD coilovers. I recommend them to just about everyone I know who is looking for suspension. And even still, those who have them love it. Thats basically where I am. I have people that send me emails asking questions. So far, HSD coilover is the brand I recommend because I have the confirmation from my peers and from time at the track in testing. I own a Lancer with HSDs and work with a team to put together track EVO Xs for this year.

 

^^^ You know, Mike and I have disagreed a lot of the years, but I never questioned the (physical) basis for his opinions, as he most definitely knows how to drive and his use of the machine isn't all the dissimilar to my own. If you look around, most of us here fall into that mold. Once in a while we get someone interested in a drop or some other purely superficial endeavor, but most CT9A pilots who frequent the board are concerned with the car's performance envelope. As such, it shouldn't come as a surprise that you're seeing some resistance, given everything posted before.

 

And soon as you guys get it; you go straight about to make a muck of it.

..and...once...again...s u b j e c t i v e.

I think this sums it up for me:



Thank you Felix.

 

Anyone have any experience with the AMR coilovers? AutoX or Track Days.

 

I got a pretty decent deal on some used AMR's. I thought I'd give them a try since I couldn't justify the ohlins just yet. Quite honestly they surprised the hell out of me. I'm as skeptical as the best of them so I tried them with hesitation.

First thing of note, they ride surprisingly smooth with the rebound turn down to 2/8 all around. After doing a thorough adjustment process I came to -3* front/ -1.5* rear camber, 5/8 front and 7/8 rear on the rebound adjustment, and 35/34 psi f/r for tire pressure on the z217 c71's.

That setup has so far gotten me 2nd of 60+ (only beaten by a cart) at an OR PCA event, and would have gotten 3rd/119 at an OR SCCA event but I coned my good run. Long story on that event, but shame on me for not bleeding my brakes... . Felt like I only had maybe 60% brake capacity so I had to spend the first run finding out my brakes sucked, second figuring out how to drive around it, then I got fast times.