Tire, Brake, and Coil Questions
Aug 13, 2011, 12:10 PM
#1
Tire, Brake, and Coil Questions
So I'm currently in the process of moving from stock evo to modified 
and I need some expertise. Sorry for the long read, but I figured I'd be as descriptive as possible.
So far I have (but not installed):
Ohlins PCV Coilovers 8kg/mm Front / 10kg/mm Rear
Volk CE28 18x9.5 +34
Rolled rear fenders
Looking to get:
Tires
Rotors, pads, SS lines, and fluid
Repaint calipers and redecal
Lugs
Hubcentric rings
Maybe spacers if needed
Maybe extended wheel studs
Maybe evodave fender kit
Goals, Use & Style:
I will be daily driving the car. I do like spirited driving getting the stock yokos to squeal around sharp turns. I plan on getting into autocross events next year. I dont plan on being the fastest at those events but competitive enough not to be laughed at. Also, I'm the kinda person that would just prefer to spend a little extra to do it once vs. doing it twice....but dont need to spend overkill to get the best of the best that I'll never need.
I have done some research but maybe i can get some expert opinions on my specific setup.
So far heres what I'm thinking:
Tires: Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1s 265/35/18
Rotors: DBA4000
Pads: Stoptech Street Pads
SS Lines: Works SS Lines
Fluid: Motul RBF600
Lugs: Mutegi Heptagonal openended lugs OR ProjectKics R26 2 piece lugs
For brakes, I'm pretty much open for opinions here, I do know that ideally blanks are better than slotted, but I'm gonna be a ricer and prefer a slotted rotor. Noticed there is a group buy for the DBA4000s and Hawk HPS pads so I'm looking for a value rotor and pad combo. Dont need a 2 piece as I'm not going to be extremely harsh on my brakes. I just need to get replacement rotors and pads as my oem's are worn. I haven't researched much about what stainless lines and fluid to get. I want to make sure the lines have no problems with length and wear.
So, is there a better deal than DBA4000 rotors & Stoptech Street pads for 549?
What SS lines do you have/recommend?
What fluid do you have/recommend?
Is the duplicolor engine paint enamel okay to use for calipers (looking for white)?Where did you get your brake decals (match the oem size in the front & REAR)?
Is there anything else I would need to make my brake setup more complete aside from air ducts?
For lugs, I do like the mutegi for the idea of a 7 sided lugnut to help prevent thieves in the area from taking my wheels or even lugnuts. They are also really cheap compared to other lugs. But I've noticed alot of people have been selling their mutegi's...is that due to issues with them or a need to go to something with more bling like rays lugs or ti lugs. I like the projectkics 2 piece design to help seat better and reduce wear on the wheels.
Any issues going with mutegi?
Are the projectkics r26 worth the extra money?
For hubcentric rings, I have no clue about these. From my understanding they help the wheel sit center (concentrically) to help reduce wobble/shake at high speeds. I don't know what brand to get and if there is a specific size I need to get for my volks or what. I need help and info here.
What brand hubcentric rings do you have/recommend?
Is there specific size I need for my CE28s?
Here is where I really need expert help otherwise I'm in for a long and expensive trial and error experiment. I'm not looking to dump my evo to the floor and go stupid stretch or poke. I'm Looking at getting my wheel face and tires to sit as flush to the fender as possible and the least amount of wheel gap as possible without tucking. Here's some examples:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...thy-meats.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...e-content.html
For tires, unless there is something new in the past few years that is better than the star specs for tire life, grip, and rain capability, I'm pretty firm on these tires and want to go with a 265/35. Right now the wheels came with a set of used 245 potenzas on them with like 25% life left. I've read some reviews and opinions about the RS3's and know the older 615s were comparable. How are the new 615s?
What tire pressure is good for DD?
What tire pressure is good for AutoX?
Got any recommendations on tire to change my mind with proof after a switch from star specs?
For fenders, I've already "started" rolling my rear fender. What I mean by that is that, they are rolled but not rolled completely flat. I say they are now about a 15-20 degree angle vs. the stock 90 degree angle. I have not done anything for the fronts as I've read they don't really need to be rolled. Worst comes to worst I'll buy the evodave kit instead of rolling the fronts. I haven't relocated or done anything about my rear bumper bolt yet.
Do I need to roll them more/flat?
Is it a good idea to roll them flat structurally?
How far are your fenders rolled?
Do I need to relocate the rear bumper bolt & where is a detailed how-to?
For spacers and wheel studs, this is something else I really don't know much about. I purchased my wheels used from an evom member who owned an evo 9. I've read that the CE28s 18x9.5 +34 need spacers to clear the caliper, and I've also read that spacers aren't needed. Contacted the previous owner and he said he didn't run spacers. In either case, I want to get my wheels & tires to sit flush with the fender as shown in the links above. I figure if I'm removing my rotors, I might as well replace my wheel studs while I have everything off.
Do I need spacers to clear my calipers?
The first link is a set of CE28s in +28 offset. So does that mean for me to get a silimiar setup I would need to get a 6mm spacer?
If not, what size spacer?
What brand spacer?
Are spacers ok to daily drive on?
With the spacer recommended, should I get extended studs?
Is it bad to hammer out the old studs & how much torque to pull the new studs in?
For coils, the ohlins I've purchased are currently setup for 8k front 10k rear. Read that CT9As are better to setup stiffer rears to help with the understeer. They came with a set of 12k springs too. But I think I'll just try the 8k & 10k first. Just don't know about camber setup.
Any recommendation on camber for DD?
Caster & Toe?
I think that's all the questions I have for not...Thankfully. I appreciate any help in advance.
and I need some expertise. Sorry for the long read, but I figured I'd be as descriptive as possible.So far I have (but not installed):
Ohlins PCV Coilovers 8kg/mm Front / 10kg/mm Rear
Volk CE28 18x9.5 +34
Rolled rear fenders
Looking to get:
Tires
Rotors, pads, SS lines, and fluid
Repaint calipers and redecal
Lugs
Hubcentric rings
Maybe spacers if needed
Maybe extended wheel studs
Maybe evodave fender kit
Goals, Use & Style:
I will be daily driving the car. I do like spirited driving getting the stock yokos to squeal around sharp turns. I plan on getting into autocross events next year. I dont plan on being the fastest at those events but competitive enough not to be laughed at. Also, I'm the kinda person that would just prefer to spend a little extra to do it once vs. doing it twice....but dont need to spend overkill to get the best of the best that I'll never need.
I have done some research but maybe i can get some expert opinions on my specific setup.
So far heres what I'm thinking:
Tires: Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1s 265/35/18
Rotors: DBA4000
Pads: Stoptech Street Pads
SS Lines: Works SS Lines
Fluid: Motul RBF600
Lugs: Mutegi Heptagonal openended lugs OR ProjectKics R26 2 piece lugs
For brakes, I'm pretty much open for opinions here, I do know that ideally blanks are better than slotted, but I'm gonna be a ricer and prefer a slotted rotor. Noticed there is a group buy for the DBA4000s and Hawk HPS pads so I'm looking for a value rotor and pad combo. Dont need a 2 piece as I'm not going to be extremely harsh on my brakes. I just need to get replacement rotors and pads as my oem's are worn. I haven't researched much about what stainless lines and fluid to get. I want to make sure the lines have no problems with length and wear.
So, is there a better deal than DBA4000 rotors & Stoptech Street pads for 549?
What SS lines do you have/recommend?
What fluid do you have/recommend?
Is the duplicolor engine paint enamel okay to use for calipers (looking for white)?Where did you get your brake decals (match the oem size in the front & REAR)?
Is there anything else I would need to make my brake setup more complete aside from air ducts?
For lugs, I do like the mutegi for the idea of a 7 sided lugnut to help prevent thieves in the area from taking my wheels or even lugnuts. They are also really cheap compared to other lugs. But I've noticed alot of people have been selling their mutegi's...is that due to issues with them or a need to go to something with more bling like rays lugs or ti lugs. I like the projectkics 2 piece design to help seat better and reduce wear on the wheels.
Any issues going with mutegi?
Are the projectkics r26 worth the extra money?
For hubcentric rings, I have no clue about these. From my understanding they help the wheel sit center (concentrically) to help reduce wobble/shake at high speeds. I don't know what brand to get and if there is a specific size I need to get for my volks or what. I need help and info here.
What brand hubcentric rings do you have/recommend?
Is there specific size I need for my CE28s?
Here is where I really need expert help otherwise I'm in for a long and expensive trial and error experiment. I'm not looking to dump my evo to the floor and go stupid stretch or poke. I'm Looking at getting my wheel face and tires to sit as flush to the fender as possible and the least amount of wheel gap as possible without tucking. Here's some examples:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...thy-meats.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...e-content.html
For tires, unless there is something new in the past few years that is better than the star specs for tire life, grip, and rain capability, I'm pretty firm on these tires and want to go with a 265/35. Right now the wheels came with a set of used 245 potenzas on them with like 25% life left. I've read some reviews and opinions about the RS3's and know the older 615s were comparable. How are the new 615s?
What tire pressure is good for DD?
What tire pressure is good for AutoX?
Got any recommendations on tire to change my mind with proof after a switch from star specs?
For fenders, I've already "started" rolling my rear fender. What I mean by that is that, they are rolled but not rolled completely flat. I say they are now about a 15-20 degree angle vs. the stock 90 degree angle. I have not done anything for the fronts as I've read they don't really need to be rolled. Worst comes to worst I'll buy the evodave kit instead of rolling the fronts. I haven't relocated or done anything about my rear bumper bolt yet.
Do I need to roll them more/flat?
Is it a good idea to roll them flat structurally?
How far are your fenders rolled?
Do I need to relocate the rear bumper bolt & where is a detailed how-to?
For spacers and wheel studs, this is something else I really don't know much about. I purchased my wheels used from an evom member who owned an evo 9. I've read that the CE28s 18x9.5 +34 need spacers to clear the caliper, and I've also read that spacers aren't needed. Contacted the previous owner and he said he didn't run spacers. In either case, I want to get my wheels & tires to sit flush with the fender as shown in the links above. I figure if I'm removing my rotors, I might as well replace my wheel studs while I have everything off.
Do I need spacers to clear my calipers?
The first link is a set of CE28s in +28 offset. So does that mean for me to get a silimiar setup I would need to get a 6mm spacer?
If not, what size spacer?
What brand spacer?
Are spacers ok to daily drive on?
With the spacer recommended, should I get extended studs?
Is it bad to hammer out the old studs & how much torque to pull the new studs in?
For coils, the ohlins I've purchased are currently setup for 8k front 10k rear. Read that CT9As are better to setup stiffer rears to help with the understeer. They came with a set of 12k springs too. But I think I'll just try the 8k & 10k first. Just don't know about camber setup.
Any recommendation on camber for DD?
Caster & Toe?
I think that's all the questions I have for not...Thankfully. I appreciate any help in advance.
Last edited by wasFWDnowAWD; Aug 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM.
Aug 13, 2011, 12:20 PM
#2
Hawk HPS pads are awful. They will be worse than stock. Also avoid HP+, which are fine but awful when cold (and they're loud).
Stoptech has a pretty good street pad. Ferodo DS2500's are a good sporty street pad too. There are a couple other good options.
EDIT:
This is what I would do for brakes for a street/auto-x car:
http://knsbrakes.com/carItemDetails....&item_id=36919
- Andrew
Stoptech has a pretty good street pad. Ferodo DS2500's are a good sporty street pad too. There are a couple other good options.
EDIT:
This is what I would do for brakes for a street/auto-x car:
http://knsbrakes.com/carItemDetails....&item_id=36919
- Andrew
Last edited by GTWORX.com; Aug 13, 2011 at 12:22 PM.
Aug 13, 2011, 12:26 PM
#3
Thanks Andrew. Yea I have read HPS are pretty bad and have read they are ok.... Maybe the other package they have with the DBA4000 and Stoptech Street Pads....? I've read the centric blanks are good for what I want to do BUT I want the bling bling of slotted rotors....
Last edited by wasFWDnowAWD; Aug 13, 2011 at 12:42 PM.
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Aug 15, 2011, 02:26 PM
#8
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^ IMO YMMV with brake pad tests. If they're testing pads on a Miata, then said results may not hold up with an Evo, as it is significantly heavier.
to the OP. For street use, I'd target an alignment similar to stock, maybe slightly more camber in the front; i.e., Camber: -2 to -3 front, ~-1.25 rear, Toe: 0 all around, Caster: as much as you can get. You're also missing what is considered to be one of the most effective handling mods to your Evo: an upgraded rear diff. This will eliminate most of the understeer on the car.
l8r)
to the OP. For street use, I'd target an alignment similar to stock, maybe slightly more camber in the front; i.e., Camber: -2 to -3 front, ~-1.25 rear, Toe: 0 all around, Caster: as much as you can get. You're also missing what is considered to be one of the most effective handling mods to your Evo: an upgraded rear diff. This will eliminate most of the understeer on the car.
l8r)
Aug 16, 2011, 07:35 AM
#9
@neal, ill try and contact you asap
@ludikraut, thanks for the input. an upgraded rear diff may be down the road for me, right now im just looking a replacing brakes and suspension because my brakes are almost done, and suspension is shot (tein s tech springs).
@ludikraut, thanks for the input. an upgraded rear diff may be down the road for me, right now im just looking a replacing brakes and suspension because my brakes are almost done, and suspension is shot (tein s tech springs).
Aug 16, 2011, 08:29 PM
#11
Stick with the 8k/10k rates to start.
try
-2.0 front camber
-1.5 rear camber
0 toe front and rear
More camber up front will help reduce understeer but going past -2.0 you start compromising tire wear for a DD. Some also like a little less than -1.5 in the rear but it's a good starting point.
- drew
try
-2.0 front camber
-1.5 rear camber
0 toe front and rear
More camber up front will help reduce understeer but going past -2.0 you start compromising tire wear for a DD. Some also like a little less than -1.5 in the rear but it's a good starting point.
- drew
Aug 17, 2011, 06:09 AM
#12
For fenders, I've already "started" rolling my rear fender. What I mean by that is that, they are rolled but not rolled completely flat. I say they are now about a 15-20 degree angle vs. the stock 90 degree angle. I have not done anything for the fronts as I've read they don't really need to be rolled. Worst comes to worst I'll buy the evodave kit instead of rolling the fronts. I haven't relocated or done anything about my rear bumper bolt yet.
Do I need to roll them more/flat?
Is it a good idea to roll them flat structurally?
How far are your fenders rolled?
Do I need to relocate the rear bumper bolt & where is a detailed how-to?
Do I need to roll them more/flat?
Is it a good idea to roll them flat structurally?
How far are your fenders rolled?
Do I need to relocate the rear bumper bolt & where is a detailed how-to?
Aug 20, 2011, 06:55 AM
#14
Im running 275/40/17's running a +29 wheel & my rears are not fully flattened out. The reason is, the flatter you get the that lip flat the greater chance you have of cracking the paint. (some guys may not care about cracked the paint)
IMO. You need to remove your rear struts & stroke the suspension fully & measure your fender clearance. Roll the rears only the amount necessary to provide clearance between the tire & fender.
Not sure if anyone answered you on the hub centric rings. I was looking for the size I run but couldnt find it right now. Anyway get the alum vs plastic rings for sure
Peace, Joe
IMO. You need to remove your rear struts & stroke the suspension fully & measure your fender clearance. Roll the rears only the amount necessary to provide clearance between the tire & fender.
Not sure if anyone answered you on the hub centric rings. I was looking for the size I run but couldnt find it right now. Anyway get the alum vs plastic rings for sure
Peace, Joe
Aug 20, 2011, 07:33 AM
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HP+ pads are some of the best I have ever used. If you avoid them due to excessive dusting or noise instead of making a decision based on performance, you are doing yourself a disservice. The best street tires I have ever used are the RE11's.. That said, I am currently trying out a Toyo R1R/Dunlop StarSpec combo. I've never used the R1R's so... I hope to see how they compare to the RE11's, AD08's etc. Right now I am running 235/40/17's but I hope to go MUCH wider on my next set. Only used this size because I had the Starspecs sitting on my porch and the car REALLY needed new tires. I honestly think that slotted rotors are a waste of time/money. Brembo blanks have been my rotor of choice for a while.
I have the same coils but a higher spring rate. I am sort of disappointed with the daily driving performance of the PCV's with a the spring rate I have (14/12, my fault but I bought them used for a great price) but I just installed them and my first event (gymkhana) on them is tomorrow. I think hubcentric rings are a waste of time/money. Overcomplicating things just makes it..... Complicated. I have had good experiences with the Goodrich SS line on my old RX7 and my GC8 WRX. I will probably go with those on my Evo as well.
I am running the EXACT same alignment settings that GTWorx.com suggested. It seems to be a good recipe for success as far as I have found in my research. I guess we will see. Again, best suggestion I can give is don't make everything complicated on things you don't need (hub rings, fender kits, etc). Suspension, Tires, Brakes, Alignment and drive the crap out of your car.
I have the same coils but a higher spring rate. I am sort of disappointed with the daily driving performance of the PCV's with a the spring rate I have (14/12, my fault but I bought them used for a great price) but I just installed them and my first event (gymkhana) on them is tomorrow. I think hubcentric rings are a waste of time/money. Overcomplicating things just makes it..... Complicated. I have had good experiences with the Goodrich SS line on my old RX7 and my GC8 WRX. I will probably go with those on my Evo as well.
I am running the EXACT same alignment settings that GTWorx.com suggested. It seems to be a good recipe for success as far as I have found in my research. I guess we will see. Again, best suggestion I can give is don't make everything complicated on things you don't need (hub rings, fender kits, etc). Suspension, Tires, Brakes, Alignment and drive the crap out of your car.