pad surface area vs. performance?
Feb 2, 2012, 01:06 PM
#1
pad surface area vs. performance?
im considering a big brake kit for my evo 8, but shopping around it seems most kits (wilwood 6 piston and stoptech st40) have smaller pads than stock brembos! how are these going to perform any better with less pad surface? i can see them working a bit better with more clamping area from the calipers, but wont the pads live a shorter life?
Feb 2, 2012, 05:37 PM
#2
What pads are you running in your car currently? A good set of pads for the proper application, brake ducts, and good fluid will do wonders. Im just running regular centric rotors with carbotech pads and I have no complaints with brake fade. At the track the car stops like your throwing an anchor out.
I would personally have the oem brembos vs the wilwoods imho.
I would personally have the oem brembos vs the wilwoods imho.
Feb 2, 2012, 06:41 PM
#3
What pads are you running in your car currently? A good set of pads for the proper application, brake ducts, and good fluid will do wonders. Im just running regular centric rotors with carbotech pads and I have no complaints with brake fade. At the track the car stops like your throwing an anchor out.
I would personally have the oem brembos vs the wilwoods imho.
I would personally have the oem brembos vs the wilwoods imho.
right now im on stoptech street pads and centric premiums. im planning on 2 piece front rotors and some better pads. im basically looking for something streetable (good inital bite and cold stopping) but that stops better from high speed than what i have but not scream on every stop. ill be on 275 r888's so tires arent going to be an issue. ill hang on to my centrics if i want to go full race pad and track it.
Last edited by n2oiroc; Feb 2, 2012 at 06:48 PM.
Feb 2, 2012, 06:59 PM
#4
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With many of the kits the surface area of the pad may be slightly smaller, but they allow a thicker pad which makes a big difference.
Thicker pad=more heat resistance before fade.
Thicker pad=more heat resistance before fade.
Feb 2, 2012, 07:15 PM
#6
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stock calipers with agressive race pads and super sticky tires will do the trick.
Remember that the brakes will only slow the car down as much as the grip level of the tires will allow.
Remember that the brakes will only slow the car down as much as the grip level of the tires will allow.
Feb 2, 2012, 07:39 PM
#8
I drove around with cold carbotech xp8s in the front and stoptech street pads in the rear. Even cold the carbotechs initial bite was awesome, I thought was better than the stoptechs. Even cold I thought they stopped better too. They are a track only pad and definatelly take the abuse when you heat them up. They do get loud when warmed up though.
Feb 2, 2012, 07:43 PM
#9
I drove around with cold carbotech xp8s in the front and stoptech street pads in the rear. Even cold the carbotechs initial bite was awesome, I thought was better than the stoptechs. Even cold I thought they stopped better too. They are a track only pad and definatelly take the abuse when you heat them up. They do get loud when warmed up though.
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f172...2/#post1438383
Feb 2, 2012, 08:27 PM
#11
To correct something you said though, pad surface has nothing to do with how hard a pad can stop the car. If all else remains equal and you simply increase the pad area, you reduce the pressure on the surface of the pad, but you still have XXX line pressure acting on the same piston area and your normal force goes unchanged. If the coefficient of friction is unaffected by pressure, then there would be zero change in brake force with the change in pad size. I have no idea if brake pads are sensitive to pressures though.
As for why people might be interested in aftermarket setups, there are numerous downfalls to the stock setup.
The stock brembos have aluminum pistons and dust boots. Not exactly the greatest items for a race caliper. Most aftermarket stuff is stainless steel or some other superalloy that has low thermal conductivity to reduce heat transfer to the fluid.
The brembos also look to be fairly weak based on some of the pictures that have popped up showing signs of caliper flex on the pads. Some aftermarket calipers offer substantial gains in caliper stiffness.
As mentioned, some calipers manage to stuff a much thicker pad in there so pad life isn't reduced. The stock pads measured out at 4.5 in^3 of pad material. There are numerous calipers out there that increase that by 20-30% or more.
There is also the weight. The stock calipers are like 10 pounds. AP makes a caliper with like 40% more pad volume while being under 4.5 pounds.
The rotors in a big brake kit can be lighter while using better materials.
There are lots of reasons for the upgraded kits out there. But you are also right, the correct pads and venting has shown to work very well with the stock calipers. If all you are interested in is 150-0, then yeah, the brembos can be made to work very well, MOST people don't judge the capabilities of a brake upgrade by their performance under one 150-0 test.
As for why people might be interested in aftermarket setups, there are numerous downfalls to the stock setup.
The stock brembos have aluminum pistons and dust boots. Not exactly the greatest items for a race caliper. Most aftermarket stuff is stainless steel or some other superalloy that has low thermal conductivity to reduce heat transfer to the fluid.
The brembos also look to be fairly weak based on some of the pictures that have popped up showing signs of caliper flex on the pads. Some aftermarket calipers offer substantial gains in caliper stiffness.
As mentioned, some calipers manage to stuff a much thicker pad in there so pad life isn't reduced. The stock pads measured out at 4.5 in^3 of pad material. There are numerous calipers out there that increase that by 20-30% or more.
There is also the weight. The stock calipers are like 10 pounds. AP makes a caliper with like 40% more pad volume while being under 4.5 pounds.
The rotors in a big brake kit can be lighter while using better materials.
There are lots of reasons for the upgraded kits out there. But you are also right, the correct pads and venting has shown to work very well with the stock calipers. If all you are interested in is 150-0, then yeah, the brembos can be made to work very well, MOST people don't judge the capabilities of a brake upgrade by their performance under one 150-0 test.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Feb 2, 2012 at 08:31 PM.
Feb 2, 2012, 08:31 PM
#13
The stock brembos have aluminum pistons and dust boots. Not exactly the greatest items for a race caliper. Most aftermarket stuff is stainless steel or some other superalloy that has low thermal conductivity to reduce heat transfer to the fluid.
The brembos also look to be fairly weak based on some of the pictures that have popped up showing signs of caliper flex on the pads. Some aftermarket calipers offer substantial gains in caliper stiffness.
As mentioned, some calipers manage to stuff a much thicker pad in there so pad life isn't reduced. The stock pads measured out at 4.5 in^3 of pad material. There are numerous calipers out there that increase that by 20-30% or more.
There is also the weight. The stock calipers are like 10 pounds. AP makes a caliper with like 40% more pad volume while being under 4.5 pounds.
The rotors in a big brake kit can be lighter while using better materials.
There are lots of reasons for the upgraded kits out there. But you are also right, the correct pads and venting has shown to work very well with the stock calipers. If all you are interested in is 150-0, then yeah, the brembos can be made to work very well, MOST people don't judge the capabilities of a brake upgrade by their performance under one 150-0 test.
The brembos also look to be fairly weak based on some of the pictures that have popped up showing signs of caliper flex on the pads. Some aftermarket calipers offer substantial gains in caliper stiffness.
As mentioned, some calipers manage to stuff a much thicker pad in there so pad life isn't reduced. The stock pads measured out at 4.5 in^3 of pad material. There are numerous calipers out there that increase that by 20-30% or more.
There is also the weight. The stock calipers are like 10 pounds. AP makes a caliper with like 40% more pad volume while being under 4.5 pounds.
The rotors in a big brake kit can be lighter while using better materials.
There are lots of reasons for the upgraded kits out there. But you are also right, the correct pads and venting has shown to work very well with the stock calipers. If all you are interested in is 150-0, then yeah, the brembos can be made to work very well, MOST people don't judge the capabilities of a brake upgrade by their performance under one 150-0 test.
Feb 2, 2012, 08:42 PM
#14
The Brembos probably can't be beat for the price then.
Initial bite is all in the pad. One stop from 150 isn't going to be enough heat to make anything else really matter. Well, there is enough heat, but there will be plenty of time for them to cool off while you wait for the tow truck to come pick up your car after nailing a deer at 150mph.
Initial bite is all in the pad. One stop from 150 isn't going to be enough heat to make anything else really matter. Well, there is enough heat, but there will be plenty of time for them to cool off while you wait for the tow truck to come pick up your car after nailing a deer at 150mph.
Feb 3, 2012, 04:59 AM
#15
They get a bit noisy when they warm up. I usually swap back my stoptech pads when I dd, but I have had an occasion to drive around in the carbotechs for a while. It was perfectly fine. I was able to stop just fine with no fears of crashing. So far they seem to have been easy on my rotors, wear looks good.
Match up the carbotechs with a good fluid and you should have all the brakes you need for your 150-0 stops, imo. Having tried many brake fluids I have come across one that I am really happy with. Its fairly cheap and it works...http://www.amazon.com/Brembo-LCF-Plu.../dp/B000UZEF6U
Brembo LCF 600 plus. They advertise it as a Low Compressibiilty Fluid. This was something I was fighitng with using Motul, and after researching online I found that quite a few porsche guys that use motul also have this issue. ANyhow, point is this fluid is advertised as being low compressibilty to keep that pedal firm even as the fluid heats up-- and it works. This is what I use exclusively at the track now.
I just found Brembo has a racing fluid HTC64 that is supposed to have a really high dry boiling temp so I may try that out at some point for curiousities sake.
Match up the carbotechs with a good fluid and you should have all the brakes you need for your 150-0 stops, imo. Having tried many brake fluids I have come across one that I am really happy with. Its fairly cheap and it works...http://www.amazon.com/Brembo-LCF-Plu.../dp/B000UZEF6U
Brembo LCF 600 plus. They advertise it as a Low Compressibiilty Fluid. This was something I was fighitng with using Motul, and after researching online I found that quite a few porsche guys that use motul also have this issue. ANyhow, point is this fluid is advertised as being low compressibilty to keep that pedal firm even as the fluid heats up-- and it works. This is what I use exclusively at the track now.
I just found Brembo has a racing fluid HTC64 that is supposed to have a really high dry boiling temp so I may try that out at some point for curiousities sake.