asu11

iTrader: (7)

Well I have been battling with this issue for a few months. My car does not want to align correctly in the rear.

Car is lowered on FA500 coilovers. Front aligns fine since I have camber plates and obviously there is plenty of toe adjustment up front.

The rear right toe will not adjust past than -0.22 degrees. Obviously shooting for zero. The left was able to go to 0.02. Any idea why this is?

Car has never been wrecked. I guess my only choice at this point is to get some aftermarket toe and camber arms.

Im going to be taking it to another shop this weekend to get another opinion. This will be the 3rd shop that looks at it.

Thanks in advance for any input.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

How low is the car in the rear and how much negative camber are you at in the rear? To align the rear technically you have the two bolts one which adjusts toe and the other for camber but changing one alters the other so you may have it set in a manor that getting the toe in check is next to impossible.

Assuming the car isnt too low and you arent going for a ridiculous amount of camber and nothing is bent you should have no problem getting to o toe with the stock bolts. Don't throw more money at this yet. Instead learn to do it yourself or find a competent shop.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

What he said ^. I'm lowered about 1.5" in the rear, -1.5 camber, and zero toe. Generally if you're too low, you have a hard time getting the camber worked out. Not the toe. Bumpsteer isn't too terrible on these cars.

asu11

iTrader: (7)

Not exactly sure about how low in inches the car is, but there's not too much wheel gap. Has bbs mr wheels 245/40/17. Rear camber is -1.3 both sides.

I asked the guy for -1.0 in the rear but I guess that's all he could get towards positive.

I'm thinking of going to another shop to see if they get the same results, then I guess I'll have no choice but to get some aftermarket arms to dial out toe and camber so I'm not eating tires.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

It sounds like your car may be too low in the rear given those tires have a short sidewall and little fender gap. What happens is our cars have a multi link rear suspension which means that as you lower the rear it will gain negative camber. You will only have so much adjustment with the bolts so if you go too low getting minimal camber may not be possible and if it is then getting the toe in check may be your next hurdle.

I wouldn't recommend aftermarket bolts or LCA's or toe arms but if you want to be low and have minimal camber and 0 toe then it may be necessary. What kind of driving do you do with the vehicle? How much camber do you have in the front?

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

I would recommend lifting the car up. You're at the point where your car is so low that you're negatively effecting the handling, especially with the front suspension. You don't want the front control much past level, if at all..

asu11

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I understand the geometry aspect of the suspension. What I don't get is why one side will dial in correctly and the other wont

Any reason you object to getting aftermarket toe and camber adjustment arms? Car is mostly DD. Front camber is set to -1.5, 0 toe.

I'd prefer to leave the cars ride height as is. Its not extremely low. Its mostly a DD and handles quite well per my opinion and looks good to me. I don't track the car so I don't need it to be on rails. I do however agree with your statement. I still want to pick up a roll center correction kit for the front.

I'm just trying to get a decent alignment so I dont chew up tires and it still handles decent.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Try running a bit more camber, it may let the toe zero out. -1.5-1.8 isn't going to kill your tires, then run -2 up front.

Or you'll need to buy toe links for the rear.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

A bit more camber in the rear may solve your issue and really isnt going to kill your tires. Its toe that kills tires way quicker than camber.

I object to aftermarket arms because I dont feel it's necessary. You'll be spending at least a couple hundred bucks on them and then most seem to be cheaply made with low quality sphericals which will probably wear out very quickly especially on a street driven car..

And to answer your other question as to why one side can get to where you want it to be but the other side can't, that can really only be for a couple reasons. Either your ride height is different, I doubt its that bc this would need to be a significant difference and it sounds like youre not even getting it close.

Then there is the possibility that the car has been hit in which case your knuckle could be bent. chances are the aluminum suspension arms would snap before they bend so that's why I'd target the knuckle.

And lastly (and what I think is happening) is that whoever is trying to align your car is incompetent. There are two different bolts used to align the rear of the car (well, two per side). The bolt that attaches the LCA is the one that adjusts camber and the one that connect to the toe link, yep you guessed it adjusts toe. However what you'll find is that while they both have their own unique job changing one alters the other. So you can actually fine tune both camber and toe using the opposite bolt. And if you have it in a awkward position so to speak, it could hinder your ability to get either toe or camber in check.

asu11

iTrader: (7)

We'll see what happens with this next place during the alignment. Maybe they can dial it in correctly. If not, I will try running more camber as you suggested. Hopefully that can decrease the toe.


As I stated above, I will increase the rear camber if toe will not dial in. Ill probably try -2.0 front and -1.5 rear and see how that works out.

I agree with the aftermarket arms. I haven't seen an impressive set yet.

Ride height is the same on the rear for both sides. Or very close to it at least. I know for a fact the car has never been wrecked in the rear.

I'm willing to bet that the people that have been aligning my car are in fact incompetent. I just found my previous alignment sheet and the rear toe numbers were as follows:

Left: 0.17 with -1.4 camber
Right: 0.08 with -1.3 camber

Nothing was changed leading up to my most recent alignment. Only new tires. This tells me that the alignment tech has no clue how to properly dial it in.

I hope with the -2.0 up front and -1.5 in the rear, I can get the toe to 0 or very close.

I will report back with results after this next alignment.

Thanks for the input!

asu11

iTrader: (7)

So got the car aligned but a different shop.

Final specs:
Front left: -2.0 camber, 0.01 toe
Front right: -1.9 camber, 0.01 toe
Rear left: -1.9 camber, 0.01 toe
Rear right: -2.2 camber, 0.00 toe

I think this will be fine for DD. I tried to get less camber in the rear, but the tech told me this would throw toe out. Rather have less toe and more camber.

So obviously the previous shop had no clue what they were doing.

What do you guys think about my final specs?

I might get the rear arms to dial in camber a little better, but not sure if its worth the money.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

That's a lot of camber in the rear. You need to go somewhere That's knows these cars and figure out whats going on, or buy adjustable toe links. The guy didn't even get the rear camber close to symmetrical...

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

Agree minus what I put in bold. You shouldn't need to buy aftermarket toe links.

Find a better shop. I feel bad you keep spending money on alignments but the shops just arent doing a good job. Alignment shops are everywhere but finding a shop that actually cares is a different story. I know of 2 in my state...yep 2 whole shops in all of Massachusetts...

If you plan to run -2 in the front I would target -1 - -1.5 in the rear with 0 toe all around.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

My friends Evo X is so low the race shop that every one goes to in Vegas can't get the camber less then -1.7*. That's the scenario I was thinking of, but I was thinking it was toe for some reason.

Yes, find a better alignment shop. If they can get camber dialed in at -1 or -1.5, there should be plenty of adjustment to get the toe dialed in.

Measure your ride height (highest point of fend arch to the ground), and report back. Then we can determine if the "lowness" of your car is causing an issue.


Or the car was in an accident...

asu11

iTrader: (7)

The only reason I had them keep the camber in the rear was because they told me toe would not dial in without that much. So in the end I just didn't want any toe eating up my tires. Would rather have some more camber.

Do you think the current settings are going to cause faster tire wear?

I wish I could find one lol. I tried getting some feedback on local forums and the shop I went to was recommended the most. I don't have the time or want to blow the money getting random alignments.

What I want in the end is -1.5 front and -1.0 rear and 0 toe.

At this point I might just get the toe arms and see if that resolves it. Would rather spend the money now then buy another set of tires.

I'm pretty sure the guys I took the car to this previous time could get it in spec with the adjustable arms.

Problem is the toe arms that are out there don't look too high quality. If I were to get a set of toe arms what should I get? I only see the meagan and a couple ebay looking ones.

Also have my eye on a set of AP camber arms.

As I stated above, the shop could of got camber around -1.0 to -1.5 but toe would be farther out.

From the ground to the top of the fender is 24.25" in the rear.

Car has never been wrecked.

Thanks for all the input guys.