Ferodo DS2500 or OEM Brembo pads?
Mar 31, 2004, 08:52 PM
#31
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Originally posted by mttam510
....so you are saying that the OE pads do fall short at the track, I mean I fully understand, it would be foolish to push any harder when experiencing fade, but originally, you stated that they were up to the task....I am confused?
I agree with the conservation of brakes to some degree, however, if you need to ease off application and brake earlier, that is not conservation....but a poorly set-up system. Slow the car with the brakes, slowing down with 4 wheels with your middle pedal is the best way to go.
You are dealing with kinetic energy with the car rolling, in order to slow the car down you must transform that energy into heat, heat is the by-product here.....The rotor mass, pad composition and caliper (fluid) must be able to withstand this energy release. Fade occurs when the pad material becomes unstable on the transfer layer of the disc (rotor) due to excessive heat that system cannot dissapate, not enough mass in the rotor or not enough cooling via ducting, venting etc. In addition to fade, you can also experience air bubbles forming behind the piston (in the caliper) also due to excessive heat "boiling" the brake fluid....making the pedal "long", because now you are compressing the air bubbles that have formed.....a common misconception....anyways I digress. It is always a good idea, especially when running track days or braking like a champion when you are "practicing on da street", to use a good brake fluid. If you think that you may have boiled the fluid during a session, bleed your brakes in between your sessions.
Not tring to start a war here, there are enough of those already....
....so you are saying that the OE pads do fall short at the track, I mean I fully understand, it would be foolish to push any harder when experiencing fade, but originally, you stated that they were up to the task....I am confused?
I agree with the conservation of brakes to some degree, however, if you need to ease off application and brake earlier, that is not conservation....but a poorly set-up system. Slow the car with the brakes, slowing down with 4 wheels with your middle pedal is the best way to go.
You are dealing with kinetic energy with the car rolling, in order to slow the car down you must transform that energy into heat, heat is the by-product here.....The rotor mass, pad composition and caliper (fluid) must be able to withstand this energy release. Fade occurs when the pad material becomes unstable on the transfer layer of the disc (rotor) due to excessive heat that system cannot dissapate, not enough mass in the rotor or not enough cooling via ducting, venting etc. In addition to fade, you can also experience air bubbles forming behind the piston (in the caliper) also due to excessive heat "boiling" the brake fluid....making the pedal "long", because now you are compressing the air bubbles that have formed.....a common misconception....anyways I digress. It is always a good idea, especially when running track days or braking like a champion when you are "practicing on da street", to use a good brake fluid. If you think that you may have boiled the fluid during a session, bleed your brakes in between your sessions.
Not tring to start a war here, there are enough of those already....
OE pads fall short at the trak only once you can some what drive the car, not a point I am at yet but I feel I am closing in on it and I will need pads soon any way so why not upgrade, a newbie on the track will be fine on a stock system, and honestly if the stock pads were still 65$ i wouldnt look at anything else.
As for my comments about conserving brakes I was referencing people who seem to think they can thrash the stock brakes in 5 laps you just have to be doing something wrong or god knows what.
"practicing on da street", maybe these are the people that can do this to our stock brakes, canyon warriors who cant drive to save their asses
so to sum it up stock good enough for non-competitive track use, freodo better than stock but not necesary for this guy.
Last edited by absinthe; Mar 31, 2004 at 09:01 PM.
Apr 1, 2004, 07:58 AM
#32
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Originally posted by absinthe
I think we are generally making the same points with varing degrease of abuse put through the brakes this thread was started by a guy who appears (from his post) not to have much track experience...for his the stock brakes will be more than adequate even at a fast track...that ws why I said the Project Mu pads although not the equal of the Ferodo's are a better fit as they are better than the staock pads and dirt cheap.
OE pads fall short at the trak only once you can some what drive the car, not a point I am at yet but I feel I am closing in on it and I will need pads soon any way so why not upgrade, a newbie on the track will be fine on a stock system, and honestly if the stock pads were still 65$ i wouldnt look at anything else.
As for my comments about conserving brakes I was referencing people who seem to think they can thrash the stock brakes in 5 laps you just have to be doing something wrong or god knows what.
"practicing on da street", maybe these are the people that can do this to our stock brakes, canyon warriors who cant drive to save their asses
so to sum it up stock good enough for non-competitive track use, freodo better than stock but not necesary for this guy.
I think we are generally making the same points with varing degrease of abuse put through the brakes this thread was started by a guy who appears (from his post) not to have much track experience...for his the stock brakes will be more than adequate even at a fast track...that ws why I said the Project Mu pads although not the equal of the Ferodo's are a better fit as they are better than the staock pads and dirt cheap.
OE pads fall short at the trak only once you can some what drive the car, not a point I am at yet but I feel I am closing in on it and I will need pads soon any way so why not upgrade, a newbie on the track will be fine on a stock system, and honestly if the stock pads were still 65$ i wouldnt look at anything else.
As for my comments about conserving brakes I was referencing people who seem to think they can thrash the stock brakes in 5 laps you just have to be doing something wrong or god knows what.
"practicing on da street", maybe these are the people that can do this to our stock brakes, canyon warriors who cant drive to save their asses
so to sum it up stock good enough for non-competitive track use, freodo better than stock but not necesary for this guy.
Apr 1, 2004, 10:43 AM
#33
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My oem's disintigrated and ruined my rotors in the process. They were pitted and chunked off in large pieces after 5000 miles and 2 track days(not autox). I've since switched to the 2500's. I'll be using the 3000's on the front when I go back to the track.
Keep in mind that the oem's fell apart on the street several months after the track experience. So maybe their failure wasn't track related at all...but sure shouldn't ever happen to a street driven pad. I'll never put them on my evo.
Keep in mind that the oem's fell apart on the street several months after the track experience. So maybe their failure wasn't track related at all...but sure shouldn't ever happen to a street driven pad. I'll never put them on my evo.
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