Huscroft6

iTrader: (2)

Hey all, 1st off Im an idiot when it comes to alignment lingo. But heres my question. I have the Megan Racing Springs and the Meineke I wnt to originally couldnt move the bolt enough I guess they said to make it 0.0. Now I am getting diff springs, Tanabes, which will help somewhat, but heres my question... Ive heard diff specs on what to tell the "aligner" for setting the camber. I believe the toe is the one you want to set at 0. But Ive heard to set the front camber at -1 degree?? I just assumed you would want 0.0 or closest to all around, meaning toe, cast, camber and whatever else.....I just need to knwo what to tell the person who aligns it this time what the certain characterisitcs should be at, if not 0.0 Can someone help an alignment idiot with these questions please??

Thanks..........

Kayaalp

iTrader: (1)

Well, there's a lot more to suspension adjustment than just setting everything to zero...unless you only drive in a straight line!

Your best bet would be to start with the stock specs (do a search on this board for them). Once you're at stock specs, you can start messing with camber, caster, and toe to fine-tune the handling balance. But I wouldn't really start playing with alignment specs until/unless you have very specific goals.

Emre

MagEvoVII

I have toe in on front and rear. more neg camber in front than rear. My mechanic has the specs and will post them when I get them. (Ride height very important. For those of you who love to slam your cars, don't do it to this one. AWD so arms need room to work. General 2 finger in back, one in front is good.)

He said that this is the right setting for this car if you like late braking and gasing through the turn. Also everyone's driving style is different. For example drag racing settings and autocross settings are different. Make sure you make this clear to your mechanic. Also make sure he is competent. Best that they have a racing background. Most mechanics will only set your car at factory specs which are most likely spec'd around durability.

Keep in mind that the more extreme the setting, the less tire wear. Same as always sacrifice practicality for performance.

Kayaalp

iTrader: (1)

Toe-in up front That's the recipe for understeer. These cars are set up to understeer even with the little bit of toe-out dialed into them from the factory. If anything, you need to increase the toe-out a little bit to help the car turn-in and keep it's line. Front toe-in will make your car hopeless in the turns.

But your mechanic is right about more negative camber up front compared to the rear. This keeps your front tires from rolling over under hard cornering. And too much negative camber in the rear will make it very hard to rotate the car with the throttle. You don't want the rear to be that stable.


Well, it's the right setting for people who don't know how to drive...or a mechanic who's trying to cover his ***. He basically set your car up for terminal understeer. This might be safe for inexperienced drivers, but it's very frustrating for people who are used to throttle steer. Most of us like the rear to be a little more playful. After all, it's the lively handling which is why most of us bought the Evo in the first place. Otherwise we'd all be driving STi's


That really depends. For those of us who drive the track or hit backroads with gusto, the outer shoulders of the tires get raped. So "extreme" amounts negative camber will actually result in better tire wear than more conservative settings. So, there's no real downside.

Of course, if you dial in tons of negative camber because it looks cool then drive like a granny or always in straight lines (like highway driving) you'll wear out the insides of your tires. This has never been a problem for me!

Emre

MagEvoVII

You know what's funny... He's an STi owner. haha. But I have confidence in him as he used to work on a race team and has a lot of experience with Evos also. He said the same thing that these cars understeer by nature. The roads here in HK are really narrow and the mountain roads we fly around on leave little or no margin for error. I agree with the throttle steer but there's no room for the back to slide out, otherwise your *** will be in the opposite lane comming around a blind corner. Just don't have the stomach for that. I just got my EVO so you may be right about the set up. Just giving different things a try until I find the right setting for myself.

As I said before, I prefer to hard brake at the last minute and gas into the turn ... this action alone already causes the weight of the car to shift forward going into the turn. That is enough to throw the back out. I think that's why my settings are the way they are. I had toe out in front and toe in in back before, and had a lot of problems with my back end getting squirly. It's fun when there's space to do it, but I nearly **** myself one morning when I was looking at a guard rail going sideways. Now the car is sliding evenly on all 4 wheels. We'll see how it goes...still learning with the EVO. My GTR is also AWD but not all time, it comes in at high revs or when it senses a slide... kind of weird actually...

Ya that's true but with all variables constant, and with tire wear in mind, more camber = less tire durability... I think what you mean by better tire wear is more evenly worn tires ... doesn't mean they last longer...over all.

MagEvoVII

My mechanic has 30 years in the trade, worked for Mercedes race team, prepped porsches, ferraris for the track, owns an STi and specializes (his hobby and preference for cars) now in rally based cars (EVO/STi). He gets a lot of his data through channels with co's in australian like RalliArt and MRT as well as personal experience. Some things were too technical for him to explain to me but he says they have tested what works trial and error. Just like most things in life, no one way is right, no one standard approach.

With that said... I asked him about the toe settings why he had them set toe in in the front and he said that was the setting he got from the guys at rally art, Australia. On the track, it seemed the setting that worked. As far as height of the car, not to low as the lower arms need room to work especially for the FWD system. But he added some of the japanese tuners like to go lower and he's seen other people use the toe out in the front. Guess its all a matter of preference and what suits you.

Interested in you guy's experience with different settings so please post... THNX

detroit evo

iTrader: (3)

Interesting discussion. I haven't layed under the car long enough to see how the suspension will react under compression and rebound. However I would think that if your driving style is as you say MAGEVOVII. Then the weight transfer as you get on the gas early as you enter a turn would raise the inside front wheel. Or in otherwords, allow the inside wheel to move from compressed to a rebound state. That motion may cause the suspension links and steering arms to work the front wheels geometries to provide the proper total toe that you need.

For those of us that trail brake deep into a corner this would not be a good set up on tarmac. On loose surfaces it may be safer.

But like I said I haven't layed underneath my Evo RS yet.

chrisw

iTrader: (2)

On the EVO, under full compression the front end will toe in (a lot)

The rear multi link suspension is pretty cool as there is no preceptible toe change through out the range of motion. (or so I have been told by a tuner that I trust)

This is totally different than the Subaru Impreza (WRX/STI).

On those cars, the front suspension toes out on full compression. The rear of the subarus is also unique (to us dump americans anyway) The rear suspension on the Impreza toes out on full compression. This makes the car more stable when landing after you get some air time over those swedish yumps...

The EVO on the other hand is such a demon in the corners because as you load up the outside front suspension (full body lean) the outside front wheel will toe in (into the turn) while the outside wheel toes out (in the direction of the corner). IMHO, this helps the EVO turn like a mad dog chasing it's tail.

It would be very interesting to accuratly measure the dynamic toe change on the EVO. While I have been able to do it to some degree, my measurements are very crude at best....

Kayaalp

iTrader: (1)

Keep in mind that the toe settings used in rally cars (especially on deformable surfaces) will be very different from what you'd use on a smooth track. The guys at Ralliart Australia might toe in the front to stabilize it under trail braking...they probably also use significant toe-out in the rear to help the back rotate easily and predictably.

But this style of driving is very different from the approach you'd use on a smooth track. Throwing the car sideways is slow when you have loads of grip. A track set-up will invariably have a significant amount of toe-out up front to help the car turn-in sharply at speed. You'd want something closer to zero toe in the rear (and maybe even a little toe-in at the rear to keep it under check under hard braking).

My Evo corners significantly better on the track than it used to now that I've had it aligned properly. Camber and toe were WAY off...it made the car very stable, but cornered like a pig.

Emre

MagEvoVII

Yes I asked him whether the settings were for rally spec, and no it's for track.
Not saying this is the best setting but it was an improvement over my old setting which caused a lot of oversteer. When I first got the evo, it was toe out in front and toe in, in the rear ... I almost crashed my car one morning around a corner because the rear end came loose. On several other occasions, it did the same thing ... seemed to be really squirly, which is why I'm so nervous now. Could be the tires too (PZERO NERO - crap tires- I ordered my AD07's already) My tuner/mechanic changed my settings to toe in front and rear ... same as my buddy in ev0 6 and his car corners like it's on rails. So we'll see I'll give it another shot this weekend(what i need to do is hit the track). current settings: Front -2 camber, 3mm Toe in/Rear -1 camber, 1mm toe in

I'm curious to know what your settings are excactly and the characteristics of your car when in hard corner. Does it over steer first, then the back comes out, or back comes out into the turn ... all 4 wheels slide same time???

I haven't had a chance to really give my new settings a real try. New evo owner and not sure if late braking is the correct way to handle this car. That's just what I was used to in my other car (GTR). Interested to hear input on your (everyone) settings and car characteristics ... thnx

ob4

iTrader: (5)

That's what i see when setting ride height on my car. I have 0 toe f/r -2f/-1r for camber. When running 0 or positive toe, the car will be very sensitive to steering input which is good for turn in too.

MagEvoVII, where do you drive your car in HK? The road to Shek O is my favorate.

-ob4

jemm

iTrader: (2)

http://www.lancerregister.com/faq/M08/m08.html

from what I can tell, the 7 settings are the same for the US & JDM 8

MagEvoVII

Yea Shek-o is not bad. It's tough though and a lot of wet spots this time of year, and the FUZZ.

Da Mo San is good too.