FP Red 411whp/365wtq DG Tuned!
Jun 10, 2009, 09:47 AM
#61
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I beg to differ. Listen to the last few pulls in the video and you can clearly hear compressor surge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMs6Vx7jwZU
Every setup will change how something works but every single FP Red we have had on the dyno surges.
Here is another example of an evo 9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crgAa9P1N5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMs6Vx7jwZU
Every setup will change how something works but every single FP Red we have had on the dyno surges.
Here is another example of an evo 9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crgAa9P1N5s
Jun 10, 2009, 09:54 AM
#62
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The standard FP Red X turbos surge as well. Not quite as much as the 8/9's but they do surge.
Jun 14, 2009, 03:08 PM
#63
The Mitsubishi EVO X Dominator 2.0 is an outstanding performer featuring a proprietary state-of-the-art 52 lb/min Garrett GT compressor wheel (with an unheard of 79% maximum efficiency) combined with a race proven proprietary 11 bladed Garrett turbine wheel all wrapped up in a true Mitsubishi bolt on package.
This turbo is an all around great stock appearing/bolt on turbo. It has proved to make the same power at 25psi compared to the red with the same bolt-ons. We still need to test both turbos at higher boost levels to really see which one will make more power.
Initial Pros and Impressions over the FP Red:
No Surge. FP Red has compressor surge in 4th/5th gear
Blouch Dominator 2.0 is readily available compared to FP's wait time.
Produces same power as FP Red at 25psi with even bolt-ons between each other.
I don't think you can go wrong with either turbo although the FP Red has proven to go mid 9's and countless FP Red evo IX's have gone 10's.
Big Valley Performance went 10.7's with the FP Red on their evo x.
Not too much information is out there with the Blouch Turbos and track times.
This turbo is an all around great stock appearing/bolt on turbo. It has proved to make the same power at 25psi compared to the red with the same bolt-ons. We still need to test both turbos at higher boost levels to really see which one will make more power.
Initial Pros and Impressions over the FP Red:
No Surge. FP Red has compressor surge in 4th/5th gear
Blouch Dominator 2.0 is readily available compared to FP's wait time.
Produces same power as FP Red at 25psi with even bolt-ons between each other.
I don't think you can go wrong with either turbo although the FP Red has proven to go mid 9's and countless FP Red evo IX's have gone 10's.
Big Valley Performance went 10.7's with the FP Red on their evo x.
Not too much information is out there with the Blouch Turbos and track times.
Jun 15, 2009, 10:47 AM
#64
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Awesome feedback brother as it gives me some things to consider here in Iraq. Could you post a link so that I could do some reading on the Blotch turbo? I have an VIII so I'm interested in reading as much as I can about these reported surge issues. This might sound silly when I ask but surge is bad for the turbo/engine, right? What is surge exactly as I've been leaning towards the FP Red (v2) as my weapon of choice (post-Iraq).
The 52 lb/min compressor section is good for an estimated 520hp worth of airflow.
Compressor surge:
The surge region, located on the left-hand side of the compressor map (known as the surge line), is an area of flow instability typically caused by compressor inducer stall. The turbo should be sized so that the engine does not operate in the surge range. When turbochargers operate in surge for long periods of time, bearing failures may occur. When referencing a compressor map, the surge line is the line bordering the islands on their far left side.
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Common conditions that result in compressor surge on turbocharger gasoline engines are:
* A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application
The new improved FP Red seems promising. We have not tested one yet to see if it will surge or not. What I can tell you is that the blouch dom 2.0 is easy to get and does not surge at all in any gear up to 30psi of boost!
Jun 16, 2009, 05:59 AM
#65
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Also, since we're talking about it, are there other things that would 'help' the surge situation, bigger cams, higher octane, higher boost, etc.? Thanks.
Last edited by Tractionlimit; Jun 16, 2009 at 06:26 AM.
Jun 16, 2009, 07:07 AM
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Sorry to hijack, but is Forced Performance admitting there was a problem with the original FPRed, or is this based on your conclusions? Wondering where this leaves all of us who bought one from the first batch.
Also, since we're talking about it, are there other things that would 'help' the surge situation, bigger cams, higher octane, higher boost, etc.? Thanks.
Also, since we're talking about it, are there other things that would 'help' the surge situation, bigger cams, higher octane, higher boost, etc.? Thanks.
This can/will cause surge:
* A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application
Jun 24, 2009, 04:37 AM
#68
The Mitsubishi EVO X Dominator 2.0 is an outstanding performer featuring a proprietary state-of-the-art 52 lb/min Garrett GT compressor wheel (with an unheard of 79% maximum efficiency) combined with a race proven proprietary 11 bladed Garrett turbine wheel all wrapped up in a true Mitsubishi bolt on package. The Dominator 2.0 utilizes the very latest in Extreme Duty thrust bearing technology that increases surface area, durability and oil flow to the turbo thrust surfaces.
The 52 lb/min compressor section is good for an estimated 520hp worth of airflow.
Compressor surge:
The surge region, located on the left-hand side of the compressor map (known as the surge line), is an area of flow instability typically caused by compressor inducer stall. The turbo should be sized so that the engine does not operate in the surge range. When turbochargers operate in surge for long periods of time, bearing failures may occur. When referencing a compressor map, the surge line is the line bordering the islands on their far left side.
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Common conditions that result in compressor surge on turbocharger gasoline engines are:
* A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application
The new improved FP Red seems promising. We have not tested one yet to see if it will surge or not. What I can tell you is that the blouch dom 2.0 is easy to get and does not surge at all in any gear up to 30psi of boost!
The 52 lb/min compressor section is good for an estimated 520hp worth of airflow.
Compressor surge:
The surge region, located on the left-hand side of the compressor map (known as the surge line), is an area of flow instability typically caused by compressor inducer stall. The turbo should be sized so that the engine does not operate in the surge range. When turbochargers operate in surge for long periods of time, bearing failures may occur. When referencing a compressor map, the surge line is the line bordering the islands on their far left side.
Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. In cases of extreme surge, the thrust bearings of the turbo can be destroyed, and will sometimes even lead to mechanical failure of the compressor wheel itself.
Common conditions that result in compressor surge on turbocharger gasoline engines are:
* A compressor bypass valve is not integrated into the intake plumbing between the compressor outlet and throttle body
* The outlet plumbing for the bypass valve is too small or restrictive
* The turbo is too big for the application
The new improved FP Red seems promising. We have not tested one yet to see if it will surge or not. What I can tell you is that the blouch dom 2.0 is easy to get and does not surge at all in any gear up to 30psi of boost!
Jun 24, 2009, 05:08 AM
#69
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We Just finished up one yesterday..No surge in any gears!
Jun 24, 2009, 03:39 PM
#70
Actually the FP Red is what I plan to get as a gift once I return from Iraq. I've gone through the entire FP site and when it's all said and done, the FP Red will run me a bit over $2,500 plus tax. For that price, I may as well save a few extra pennies and buy the TAK33r turbo kit from ETS. The FP Red is awesome and have proven to make some serious power but those were on EVOs with all of the tricks. I've also looked at the FP Green 73HTA as it put down some serious numbers on just 24PSI/pump.
