Replacing all the stock speakers????
Apr 14, 2010, 09:12 AM
#31
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I still didnt see the amplified coming from the deck... all i saw was the low levels. None of the other wires matched colors down by the amp so I didnt pay attention to them.
Apr 18, 2010, 05:43 PM
#33
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I was going to install my ESX amps but I am confused now. All I want to do is work with the preamp outs/low level outputs. These amplified channels from the head unit are routed to the oem amp first and do not go straight to the speakers? I am hoping this is the case so I will not need to send output wires from the amp to the dash to hook into the speakers.
Not that it is a big deal cuz I can bearly hear her anyway, but will the navi voice be lost using low level outs?
Not that it is a big deal cuz I can bearly hear her anyway, but will the navi voice be lost using low level outs?
Apr 19, 2010, 08:43 AM
#34
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I was going to install my ESX amps but I am confused now. All I want to do is work with the preamp outs/low level outputs. These amplified channels from the head unit are routed to the oem amp first and do not go straight to the speakers? I am hoping this is the case so I will not need to send output wires from the amp to the dash to hook into the speakers.
Not that it is a big deal cuz I can bearly hear her anyway, but will the navi voice be lost using low level outs?
Not that it is a big deal cuz I can bearly hear her anyway, but will the navi voice be lost using low level outs?
Apr 19, 2010, 08:52 AM
#35
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I would:
- Replace the amp and stop if you like it.
- Replace the front speakers with decent components and crossovers and stop if you like it.
- Replace the sub and stop if you like it.
Putting coaxial (full range) speakers and tweeters in the front is a bit weird: if you have a crossover, you will not get much treble from the coax speakers anyway. If you are not using a crossover, you will pull your soundstage downwards and may damage your tweeters.
- Replace the amp and stop if you like it.
- Replace the front speakers with decent components and crossovers and stop if you like it.
- Replace the sub and stop if you like it.
Putting coaxial (full range) speakers and tweeters in the front is a bit weird: if you have a crossover, you will not get much treble from the coax speakers anyway. If you are not using a crossover, you will pull your soundstage downwards and may damage your tweeters.
Apr 19, 2010, 08:58 AM
#37
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You shouldn't wire speakers in series like this in a hi-fi setup. The music will sound compressed and you will miss out highs from your tweeter and lows from your woofer. Speakers do not have the same impedance (measured in ohms) across the frequency range and you will get distortion too.
Apr 19, 2010, 10:39 AM
#38
To add to your post...don't get caught up in brand names or new designs or any of that stuff. Buy whatever sounds good to you. For it to sound good to some people, they may be able to buy a $200 amp and that's it. For other people, they may need a full custom install and $10,000. It varies based on personal preferences. In the end, all that really matters is that it sounds good to you since it's your car and you have to listen to it every day
Apr 19, 2010, 03:08 PM
#39
Of course it will work. But you're not going to get the most out of the amp. Also, the stock speakers are 1ohm, which means the stock amp is designed to run a completely different load than that of a standard aftermarket stereo.
What you are dong is completely pointless if you don't replace the stock amp. The stock amp can't even push the stock speakers as far as they are capable. Why would new speakers make anything any better? Besides, you can't even adjust the stock amp, which means if your volume levels are off, you're stuck with buying a new amp anyway. The stock speakers are polypropylene (not paper like most stock speakers) so they are actually of pretty damn good quality. It's just that the coils are 1ohm and they aren't designed to take a ridiculous amount of power. Also, the stock amp is designed to output sub power to 2 voice coils, not one. So you may even lose half of the power of the sub channel on the amp.
But really, replacing allllllllll those speakers and spending all that time and money, will net you exactly zero and may put you in a worse position if you don't replace the amp.
Replace the amp. Seriously. It sucks, it's a dirty job. But you can find a really nice amp for a couple hundred bucks and your stereo will be 3 times as loud as it is now, with new speakers and amp!
What you are dong is completely pointless if you don't replace the stock amp. The stock amp can't even push the stock speakers as far as they are capable. Why would new speakers make anything any better? Besides, you can't even adjust the stock amp, which means if your volume levels are off, you're stuck with buying a new amp anyway. The stock speakers are polypropylene (not paper like most stock speakers) so they are actually of pretty damn good quality. It's just that the coils are 1ohm and they aren't designed to take a ridiculous amount of power. Also, the stock amp is designed to output sub power to 2 voice coils, not one. So you may even lose half of the power of the sub channel on the amp.
But really, replacing allllllllll those speakers and spending all that time and money, will net you exactly zero and may put you in a worse position if you don't replace the amp.
Replace the amp. Seriously. It sucks, it's a dirty job. But you can find a really nice amp for a couple hundred bucks and your stereo will be 3 times as loud as it is now, with new speakers and amp!
your stock amp is totally fine, up to a point. its characteristics will change when pushed with higher loads, and driving different speakers. but at average volumes, i don't see anything wrong with it. i dunno how loud you guys listen to music, but i've never pushed my speakers to the point where i can hear audible distortion.
as for changing speakers, well, i feel the stock ones sound okay. maybe not the best. certainly not like studio monitors or a good home setup, but fine for playing music while listening to the real music of the exhaust.
i suppose changing up to nicer speakers will add clarity, but i'm not sure if the speakers you chose are that much of an upgrade. and also as others have noted, your amp was only made to drive a certain load of speakers. going lower in impedance will increase volume, but will over drive your amp. if you want to change impedance, you will need to change the amp.so, if you just want to change speakers without touching the amp, make sure you stick with the same impedance. but i personally wouldn't mess with it unless if you go for a significant upgrade, like dynaudio's or something.
Apr 20, 2010, 07:36 AM
#40
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People have repeatedly said it however...
the stock amp, while good for most, is very limiting with its "built in features". It definately stops the system from sounding like it should for the money paid for it. The general consensus is that replacing the amp is the first step anyone should take if they want to improve their car audio from the RF system installed stock. Then upgrading speakers and finally a head unit. Upgrading speakers on the stock amp wont do crap for sound as the amp is still limiting the quality of the sound output.
the stock amp, while good for most, is very limiting with its "built in features". It definately stops the system from sounding like it should for the money paid for it. The general consensus is that replacing the amp is the first step anyone should take if they want to improve their car audio from the RF system installed stock. Then upgrading speakers and finally a head unit. Upgrading speakers on the stock amp wont do crap for sound as the amp is still limiting the quality of the sound output.
Apr 20, 2010, 09:02 AM
#41
People have repeatedly said it however...
the stock amp, while good for most, is very limiting with its "built in features". It definately stops the system from sounding like it should for the money paid for it. The general consensus is that replacing the amp is the first step anyone should take if they want to improve their car audio from the RF system installed stock. Then upgrading speakers and finally a head unit. Upgrading speakers on the stock amp wont do crap for sound as the amp is still limiting the quality of the sound output.
the stock amp, while good for most, is very limiting with its "built in features". It definately stops the system from sounding like it should for the money paid for it. The general consensus is that replacing the amp is the first step anyone should take if they want to improve their car audio from the RF system installed stock. Then upgrading speakers and finally a head unit. Upgrading speakers on the stock amp wont do crap for sound as the amp is still limiting the quality of the sound output.
as you probably know, there is no ideal speaker in this world outside perhaps those used in critical laboratories. but no such consumer speaker exists. thus at any listening level, changing speakers can often have large effects on the character of sound.
anyway, again, this is from my experience in pro audio and home hi-fi. i've used many amps in my past, including pure a, or a-b type amps, and also cheaper types. i've even used tube amps, and various eccentricities like $1500 solid state headphone amplifies. and with my human ears, its very hard to tell any difference between amps at normal listening levels. but i can always tell the difference between speakers.
as i've stated, i have little experience in car audio. perhaps there's something i'm missing, but i've not heard anything compelling in this thread. anyway, this is merely my opinion... you could be totally right.
Apr 20, 2010, 10:54 AM
#42
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You can disagree till you are blue in the face... but when we talk about the imposed limitations of the stock amp, its not at "normal" listening levels which would be fine if I were in a parking lot. Limitations are the limits... which for me are when im driving home from work on the freeway going 75 mph with the windows halfway down and the stereo needing to be above 23 to hear as much as possible. At that level the stock amp is imposing its volume limiting and sounds like crap mostly... but that is all relative to my own ears.
Im not an audiophile like you nor have I ever claimed to be one. I am however not satisfied with what I currently have and by finding the weak link in the chain (yes, its the amp... go do more research if you dont believe me), I will be replacing it first and working on other components later.
Im not an audiophile like you nor have I ever claimed to be one. I am however not satisfied with what I currently have and by finding the weak link in the chain (yes, its the amp... go do more research if you dont believe me), I will be replacing it first and working on other components later.
Apr 20, 2010, 05:09 PM
#43
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hi. i respectfully disagree. my point was that under "normal" listening levels, the amp is perfectfly fine. it drives the speakers, at their current impedence, just fine. i do not hear any distortion. now, when you bring up the volume, say into the 100-105db interior range, then yeah, i can see how a stock amp may not have enough juice to control the woofers. if you can accept the fact that the amp meets its published thd and rms wattage at those levels, and given that this is a solid state amp which usually has stable output, then we can discuss the merits of using different speakers.
as you probably know, there is no ideal speaker in this world outside perhaps those used in critical laboratories. but no such consumer speaker exists. thus at any listening level, changing speakers can often have large effects on the character of sound.
anyway, again, this is from my experience in pro audio and home hi-fi. i've used many amps in my past, including pure a, or a-b type amps, and also cheaper types. i've even used tube amps, and various eccentricities like $1500 solid state headphone amplifies. and with my human ears, its very hard to tell any difference between amps at normal listening levels. but i can always tell the difference between speakers.
as i've stated, i have little experience in car audio. perhaps there's something i'm missing, but i've not heard anything compelling in this thread. anyway, this is merely my opinion... you could be totally right.
as you probably know, there is no ideal speaker in this world outside perhaps those used in critical laboratories. but no such consumer speaker exists. thus at any listening level, changing speakers can often have large effects on the character of sound.
anyway, again, this is from my experience in pro audio and home hi-fi. i've used many amps in my past, including pure a, or a-b type amps, and also cheaper types. i've even used tube amps, and various eccentricities like $1500 solid state headphone amplifies. and with my human ears, its very hard to tell any difference between amps at normal listening levels. but i can always tell the difference between speakers.
as i've stated, i have little experience in car audio. perhaps there's something i'm missing, but i've not heard anything compelling in this thread. anyway, this is merely my opinion... you could be totally right.
Apr 20, 2010, 08:54 PM
#44
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There is no way 100 to 105db is being made by the factory system. I can have music playing wide open and hold a conversation with a person sitting in the passenger seat. Plus decibels over 85db will demage your hearing if exsposed for long periods (i don't care). Mitsu will not install a system in your car that could damage your hearing on those long trips. The system sounds okay sitting still but sucks while driving. My wife's grocery getter has a better sound system in it and gets a lot louder (minus the little bit of bass) with about the same road noise driving.
Apr 21, 2010, 04:48 PM
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OK, for an 8 Channel DSP Amp of its size the Fosgate isn't that bad.
Now the problem is by running speakers that are designed for more power, it's going to to cause clipping to occur since you're under powering them, and thus overheat the fosgate amp, which will kill it.
Now the problem is by running speakers that are designed for more power, it's going to to cause clipping to occur since you're under powering them, and thus overheat the fosgate amp, which will kill it.