Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

how about mike 1023..?

Phalse

iTrader: (2)

I dont even have an X and I hope they have a functional ecuflash/evoscan soon, the thought of some shops raping people with first to market solutions has always bugged me.

StevenStarke

iTrader: (77)

+ 53495738234 on that

I def will NOT be installing an SAFC or anything like that

-Steve

David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

I don't think of it as being raped. You are paying for a service. Ecutek and Cobb both have full time software engineers that work on this at high paying jobs to figure it all out and put it into a package so someone can tune the car. Do you think the cost of all the engineering they pay their employees is free? We are talking hundreds upon hundreds of hours to disect the code, write the new software. Then they give you tech support on the product when it is all done. None of that is free. For the end user (you the car owner) you pay a one time license fee from Ecutek and after that if you need retuned it is whatever the tuner charges you. How is that being raped? In the case of Cobb you buy an Access Port and after that you can tune it, download free maps or have a professional tune it, how is that being raped?

I USE THE FREE SOFTWARE THAT IS OUT. I am also GRATEFUL it is there. BUT I think the guy who makes it is foolish for giving it away. Is his time worth nothing? I sure hope it is. Maybe he's just a super nice guy that wants to help, I don't know, obviously there is a reason this great software is free. Personally, I don't get it and would be happy as hell to pay a reasonable amount of money for it.

machron1

iTrader: (1)

+1 open-source software is great, but since it is developed in people's spare time it is not normally on schedule with the commercial software unless it is a spin-off of a commercial product, nor does it come with free real-time support. as with anything, you get what you pay for. that said, i don't know the business model for the open-source tuning software, but i'm guessing it's put together out of the simple love of cars, and as a learning excercise for others. in other words, you can learn a new skill from a book, or by working on something interesting and cool that benefits others. i'm a software engineer myself, and was actually thinking of helping to get the ball rolling on the X tuning capabilities so when i get my MR, not only will the software be ready but ideally i could know enough to road-tune it myself. however...my work, girlfriend, and simple laziness seem to be sapping my motivation at the moment. the open-source community is something i feel i should give back to though since i use so much of it at work. it is invaluable to me and many others, and what better way to give back than to help my fellow evo folks!

PDXEvo

iTrader: (4)

Its the open source attitude that makes the free stuff free. The reality is a lot of us have been burned by the so called "professional" tuners. Anyone with a credit card could get the software/hardware needed to tune a car, and they all of a sudden become experts in the field. The scary thing is that everyone believed they were experts because they had the "tools" necessary for the job. Even when this wasnt the case. I know several tuners on this board were very rough in the beginning and did not do full and safe tunes. This caused a lot of headaches and great pains for several of us members that should have been benefiting from the so called expertise.

Enter the Open Source flash capabilities, and this was no longer an issue. Now you were able to witness an entire community communicating with each other to solve problems and share their experiences. Something that "pro tuners" refused to do. As if they were the holders of some big magical secret. Gone were the days of sending emails with no responses, or being ridiculed because you didn't follow the path that was most profitable for that tuner.

The other reality is the people that got the previous work done to realize how poorly the "pro tuner" had done. Seeing things like the removal of low octane maps and other protection routines really allowed the user to call out the pro guys and say "This isnt right!". It put the power back into the hands of the consumer, and that is where it should stay.

Phalse

iTrader: (2)

Let me rephrase, by rape I mean a rather excessive charge for the service.

I dont have a single problem paying for a good tuner to do a job. I myself bought one of al's mail in flashes for my evo almost a year before the ecuflash project came out. Why? It was at an attractive price.. $200. You still pay about that for a mail in tuning subscription at several vendors.

Yes, I perfectly understand the massive overhead that these solutions costs to engineer, however as I said it seems excessive to see some of the charges. I believe shiv mentioned $1k for a proceed or some such for his X tuning solution.

That'd be rape imo.

michow87

yea, but Vishnu has a rep of making amazing tuning chips. They got a history of being damn good. thats why i plan on trusting em

David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

Yes, $1,000 is rape but (this will cause problems-I never have cared) if someone in the EVO community uses someone who left the EVO market for bigger and better projects just to pop back up when a new car arrives is dumb enough to pay it and support a vendor like that, he deserves to be raped. Just my opinion.

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

Yes and no. Might wanna do some more research on these boards...

l8r)

Sean@Iveytune

iTrader: (14)

I agree 100% they spend alot of time and money to develop those tools. Fair is fair.

Sean

dbsears

iTrader: (37)

Damn do you have a thing or two to learn. Read Davids post very carefully then go find out why he said that. I can vouch for that because I used to have Ecutek but I had to give it up because my tune was rough (software was awesome) and I had so customer support...no emails returned, PM's, and phone calls never returned. That was a $600 ecutek license down the drain. I myself will NEVER support Vishnu. I will put it this way...if his IX's were mediocre at best what justifies his tunes on the X being worthwhile. Go ask how many 335i are taking off their procedes? Sorry for OT....

mrfred

iTrader: (50)

ECUFlash makes its money selling the cables. Low profit per sale, but high volume.

Its interesting to consider the value of the commercial tuning products vs the open source products. In the two years that ECUFlash has been out, more progress has been made on understanding the Evo ECU and how to effectively tune it than has occurred in all previous years when only commercial products were available. Pretty much everyone involved in the open source effort are amateur programmers. For the price that is paid for commercial products, I don't see why they aren't keeping up with, or surpassing the open source effort.

codgi

iTrader: (22)

ECUFlash is not open source. I've noticed a bunch of people on this thread confuse free software and open source. This comment isn't directly at you, but just saying it in general: they are two completely different (but often related) things.

I won't go as far as to say the commercial software isn't keeping up. As late as cobb was to the scene they still brought features that aren't going to be easy to emulate with the open source efforts on this forum and others. Furthermore, in a lot of ways it is more that the open source effort is now catching up to some of the "pro" offerings out there. Works had their little hardware based boost control for years before the ECUFlash forum here starting playing with boost pills and the WGDC tables.

There also have been several companies and some private individuals that have hired software engineers to go and pull a bunch of extra tables out of the roms. Tables that as of yet don't seem to have turned up here or over on acktivematrix. Its been kept hush, hush for obvious reasons but the rabbit hole is a bit deeper than we may have been lead to think .

EvoG8r

iTrader: (31)

I think ECUflash has been great for the community. The sharing of knowledge really has helped enhance the overall tuning knowledge of many. It has helped to come up with a lot of inovative ideas using the factory ECU.

I remember a couple years ago, I felt like we were in the dark ages. Tuners never talked about there knowledge and it was a complete mystery. I understand that they where trying to keep others from entering the market and syphon profits. After all they need to make a living. I remember paying Turbo Trix for my first tune, he was using Tom Tom. I made decent power, I was happy.

My friend then mailed his entire ECU to turbo trix and got a flash. Man did that suck. I'm glad we don't have to do that anymore.

Tuning can cost allot of money and some of us would like to be able to self tune with out having to spend $1500+ on a AEM. If they blow up their car in the process, oh well, thats the price of freedom.

Others have no desire to do this and will gladly pay a "professional" to to this for them. I put that in quotes because I have noticed just how shaby a tune can be from these people. I've met to many dirt bags with a laptop that think they have a clue. I've also met a few that truly know what the hell they are doing. Maybe I'm imagining these things?

I like paying for good service, but with the BS I like that ECUflash gives you a choice.