EVO X MR Buschur stage 3 results.
Sep 22, 2008, 11:22 PM
#1
EVO X MR Buschur stage 3 results.
Hey guys,
Running through the stock cat, using the "quiet" muffler option, and running without an upgraded lower IC pipe (being fabricated) my setup is basicly identical to the Buschur Racing BR 350 setup at the moment.
I was not able to get a baseline run on Dave Buschurs dyno, but the only other MR he has dynoed baselined at 220 wheel HP, and the average baseline HP for the GSR's he has dynoed was also about 220 wheel HP... so I will consider 220 a realistic starting point.
My final numbers were 270 wheel HP and 266 lb-ft of torque.
The SST transmission overides the Engine ECU if you are making too much torque and reduces power by going to part throttle at low to mid range RPM's and then wide open throttle in the upper RPM's.
In short, the SST cars (stock turbo and cams) are limited to aprox 50 HP higher than what comes from the factory at this time. I suspect that an upgraded turbo, or cams would improve top end power while leaving torque alone...
Eventually there will be programer systems for the trasmission control unit, and upgraded clutch packs available... until then we are limited by the built in safety features of the transmission. I will be taking the car back to the track to see how a bit more torque and a lot more HP affects 1/4 mile times in the MR.
Keith
Running through the stock cat, using the "quiet" muffler option, and running without an upgraded lower IC pipe (being fabricated) my setup is basicly identical to the Buschur Racing BR 350 setup at the moment.
I was not able to get a baseline run on Dave Buschurs dyno, but the only other MR he has dynoed baselined at 220 wheel HP, and the average baseline HP for the GSR's he has dynoed was also about 220 wheel HP... so I will consider 220 a realistic starting point.
My final numbers were 270 wheel HP and 266 lb-ft of torque.
The SST transmission overides the Engine ECU if you are making too much torque and reduces power by going to part throttle at low to mid range RPM's and then wide open throttle in the upper RPM's.
In short, the SST cars (stock turbo and cams) are limited to aprox 50 HP higher than what comes from the factory at this time. I suspect that an upgraded turbo, or cams would improve top end power while leaving torque alone...
Eventually there will be programer systems for the trasmission control unit, and upgraded clutch packs available... until then we are limited by the built in safety features of the transmission. I will be taking the car back to the track to see how a bit more torque and a lot more HP affects 1/4 mile times in the MR.
Keith
Last edited by Fourdoor; Sep 22, 2008 at 11:24 PM.
Sep 23, 2008, 07:49 AM
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This was my first opportunity to drive, experience and tune a SST equipped Evo and I came away with mixed feelings
On the positive side, the SST trans on a stock of lightlhy modfied car is a real amazing unit. The shifting and ease of driving are great. If you are commuting or driving in traffic a lot the SST would really give you the best of all worlds and it can certainly down shift and up shift faster than any human. It was really FUN to drive it and after doing one black SST in the am I was looking forwward to test driving this one in the pm. A lot of fun to listen to the trans do the shifting for you - I have some great video.
On the negative side, you get the feeling that the trans may be like a time bomb ready to let loose. Its too new to really know how it will react to heavy modification and I am already hearing reports that the stock clutch pack will slip if you try and make any more than 75 additional whp over stock - (this is from reputable sources at the OEM).
I did two cars yesterday, the first was a BR350 car which made 50 more whp and TQ than stock and which responded really well to the additional power, with full functionality and really great results.
The second car, the one of the OP, seemed to be a bit stronger - although with similar mods - (addition of maf air pipe) still stock cat and as a result we began to experience a TQ limiting protection which was controlling the throtlle body.
I have seen this sort of low rpm TQ limiting contriol in the past most noteably in the Legacy GT Subaru which limits wastgate duty cycle at low vehicle speed conditions.
Here on the SST the limiter is closing the throttle blade at low rpm to reduce the TQ output, again only at low rpm conditions, after 4,200 rpms the throttle opens up all the way.
Based upon my experience, I feel that this condition is controlled by a yet undiscovered parameter in the SST ecu rom file, and my plan is to communicate with Ecutek to encourage them to loacte this limiter so we can adjust it as needed. I am sure that in the upcomming weeks Ecutek will have sorted out this limiter and found the parameter to adjust to eliminate it.
The operation of the limiter does not trigger any fault code or cel and is fairly seemless so it wont be a major problem,
When you do WOT operation you never fall into the low rpm power band and wont experirience the limiter, it will only effect you if you are doing dyno pulls of if you are say climbing a hill in low gear, etc.
The big issue is what would happen to the transmission if we figured out a way to get around the limiter and that remains unkown.
As I have suggested sources are telling me that the clutch paks are fairly weak and will not stand up to a lot of power. Time will tell.
On a more positive note, the handling and breaks on the MR version are world class and it is the best handling factory evo to date. Really great suspension and also the wheels are amazing.
All around the MR is a great car and I wish I could afford one as my daily whip.
The BR Parts kicked as as usual and with the super quiet muffler the exhuast tone is mild. Will have a video when I get back from Ohio.
Al
On the positive side, the SST trans on a stock of lightlhy modfied car is a real amazing unit. The shifting and ease of driving are great. If you are commuting or driving in traffic a lot the SST would really give you the best of all worlds and it can certainly down shift and up shift faster than any human. It was really FUN to drive it and after doing one black SST in the am I was looking forwward to test driving this one in the pm. A lot of fun to listen to the trans do the shifting for you - I have some great video.
On the negative side, you get the feeling that the trans may be like a time bomb ready to let loose. Its too new to really know how it will react to heavy modification and I am already hearing reports that the stock clutch pack will slip if you try and make any more than 75 additional whp over stock - (this is from reputable sources at the OEM).
I did two cars yesterday, the first was a BR350 car which made 50 more whp and TQ than stock and which responded really well to the additional power, with full functionality and really great results.
The second car, the one of the OP, seemed to be a bit stronger - although with similar mods - (addition of maf air pipe) still stock cat and as a result we began to experience a TQ limiting protection which was controlling the throtlle body.
I have seen this sort of low rpm TQ limiting contriol in the past most noteably in the Legacy GT Subaru which limits wastgate duty cycle at low vehicle speed conditions.
Here on the SST the limiter is closing the throttle blade at low rpm to reduce the TQ output, again only at low rpm conditions, after 4,200 rpms the throttle opens up all the way.
Based upon my experience, I feel that this condition is controlled by a yet undiscovered parameter in the SST ecu rom file, and my plan is to communicate with Ecutek to encourage them to loacte this limiter so we can adjust it as needed. I am sure that in the upcomming weeks Ecutek will have sorted out this limiter and found the parameter to adjust to eliminate it.
The operation of the limiter does not trigger any fault code or cel and is fairly seemless so it wont be a major problem,
When you do WOT operation you never fall into the low rpm power band and wont experirience the limiter, it will only effect you if you are doing dyno pulls of if you are say climbing a hill in low gear, etc.
The big issue is what would happen to the transmission if we figured out a way to get around the limiter and that remains unkown.
As I have suggested sources are telling me that the clutch paks are fairly weak and will not stand up to a lot of power. Time will tell.
On a more positive note, the handling and breaks on the MR version are world class and it is the best handling factory evo to date. Really great suspension and also the wheels are amazing.
All around the MR is a great car and I wish I could afford one as my daily whip.
The BR Parts kicked as as usual and with the super quiet muffler the exhuast tone is mild. Will have a video when I get back from Ohio.
Al
Sep 23, 2008, 08:54 AM
#6
We need a shop to step up to the plate and purchase a Lancer Ralliart as soon as they hit the dealerships to do transmission R&D... there may not be that huge of a market for the EVO MR's but ALL of the Lancer Ralliarts will have this transmission and plenty of the buyers will be wanting to make big power with them.
The exhaust system on my drive home (75 mph in Ohio, 80 mph in Indiana) was a dream! It is actually quieter at 75 mph than it is a 65 mph
It is not bad even at 65 mph though, just a mild rumble that does not interfear with listening to the radio. I actually get more road noise from the tires on certain kinds of pavment than I do from the Buschur exhaust system at 65 mph.
I didn't really notice much if any fuel economy difference on the trip back. I averaged 22.7 mpg on the way to Michigan / Ohio and 22.8 on my trip back to Indiana. Best indevidual streatch was 23 mpg on the way home. This is NOT relying on the dash display information... this is actual fuel economy based on how many gallons were burned over a measured distance. The dash display was reading over 23 mpg on the trip up and 24 mpg for most of the trip back.
Keith
The exhaust system on my drive home (75 mph in Ohio, 80 mph in Indiana) was a dream! It is actually quieter at 75 mph than it is a 65 mph
It is not bad even at 65 mph though, just a mild rumble that does not interfear with listening to the radio. I actually get more road noise from the tires on certain kinds of pavment than I do from the Buschur exhaust system at 65 mph.I didn't really notice much if any fuel economy difference on the trip back. I averaged 22.7 mpg on the way to Michigan / Ohio and 22.8 on my trip back to Indiana. Best indevidual streatch was 23 mpg on the way home. This is NOT relying on the dash display information... this is actual fuel economy based on how many gallons were burned over a measured distance. The dash display was reading over 23 mpg on the trip up and 24 mpg for most of the trip back.
Keith
Sep 23, 2008, 10:06 AM
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Certainly the Ralli Art will involve more units of the SST and more that will be more significantly modfied sooner, as such it will no doubt serve as a good test bed for SST limits
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Sep 23, 2008, 02:35 PM
#8
Are the Ralliart SST trannsmissions going to be identical to the MR's or will it be even weaker somehow? I was also wondering how the ASC clips power to the wheels, does it effect the throttle opening angles or does it trim HP to each wheel? This past weekend in low speed corners at low RPM's in 2nd gear at an Auto-X I had to turn it off to get any kind of power out of the turns. Otherwise the car would sit there for 2-3 seconds before actually delivering any power which was horrible for car control where you are actively trying to spin the tires a little. I'm just wondering if the power cut method is the same on SST and 5 speed models depending on the situation.
Nice review there Al and it would be great if you can help EcuTek get the SST limiters cracked so they can be adjusted upwards a bit.
Nice review there Al and it would be great if you can help EcuTek get the SST limiters cracked so they can be adjusted upwards a bit.
Sep 23, 2008, 04:47 PM
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Hey guys,
Running through the stock cat, using the "quiet" muffler option, and running without an upgraded lower IC pipe (being fabricated) my setup is basicly identical to the Buschur Racing BR 350 setup at the moment.
I was not able to get a baseline run on Dave Buschurs dyno, but the only other MR he has dynoed baselined at 220 wheel HP, and the average baseline HP for the GSR's he has dynoed was also about 220 wheel HP... so I will consider 220 a realistic starting point.
My final numbers were 270 wheel HP and 266 lb-ft of torque.
The SST transmission overides the Engine ECU if you are making too much torque and reduces power by going to part throttle at low to mid range RPM's and then wide open throttle in the upper RPM's.
In short, the SST cars (stock turbo and cams) are limited to aprox 50 HP higher than what comes from the factory at this time. I suspect that an upgraded turbo, or cams would improve top end power while leaving torque alone...
Eventually there will be programer systems for the transmission control unit, and upgraded clutch packs available... until then we are limited by the built in safety features of the transmission. I will be taking the car back to the track to see how a bit more torque and a lot more HP affects 1/4 mile times in the MR.
Keith
Running through the stock cat, using the "quiet" muffler option, and running without an upgraded lower IC pipe (being fabricated) my setup is basicly identical to the Buschur Racing BR 350 setup at the moment.
I was not able to get a baseline run on Dave Buschurs dyno, but the only other MR he has dynoed baselined at 220 wheel HP, and the average baseline HP for the GSR's he has dynoed was also about 220 wheel HP... so I will consider 220 a realistic starting point.
My final numbers were 270 wheel HP and 266 lb-ft of torque.
The SST transmission overides the Engine ECU if you are making too much torque and reduces power by going to part throttle at low to mid range RPM's and then wide open throttle in the upper RPM's.
In short, the SST cars (stock turbo and cams) are limited to aprox 50 HP higher than what comes from the factory at this time. I suspect that an upgraded turbo, or cams would improve top end power while leaving torque alone...
Eventually there will be programer systems for the transmission control unit, and upgraded clutch packs available... until then we are limited by the built in safety features of the transmission. I will be taking the car back to the track to see how a bit more torque and a lot more HP affects 1/4 mile times in the MR.
Keith
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=367308
This says they made approx 110 whp (if I read it correctly). Sorry I am new to Evos and think that I am missing something
Sep 23, 2008, 05:23 PM
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interesting post. i was just doing a search on GSR vs MR transmissions as i wanted to know if the MR tranny was strong enough or well suited for performance mods. judging by this post, it would seem that the GSR manual transmission would be a better choice?
Sep 23, 2008, 05:54 PM
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What about this thread?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=367308
This says they made approx 110 whp (if I read it correctly). Sorry I am new to Evos and think that I am missing something
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=367308
This says they made approx 110 whp (if I read it correctly). Sorry I am new to Evos and think that I am missing something
+1
Looks like they squoze (I know its not a real word) another 60+ out of that MR over your numbers Fourdoor. What gives?
Oh, I sent you an f'd up PM too.
Last edited by Fatalwishes; Sep 23, 2008 at 05:56 PM.
Sep 23, 2008, 06:30 PM
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Hey guys,
Running through the stock cat, using the "quiet" muffler option, and running without an upgraded lower IC pipe (being fabricated) my setup is basicly identical to the Buschur Racing BR 350 setup at the moment.
I was not able to get a baseline run on Dave Buschurs dyno, but the only other MR he has dynoed baselined at 220 wheel HP, and the average baseline HP for the GSR's he has dynoed was also about 220 wheel HP... so I will consider 220 a realistic starting point.
My final numbers were 270 wheel HP and 266 lb-ft of torque.
The SST transmission overides the Engine ECU if you are making too much torque and reduces power by going to part throttle at low to mid range RPM's and then wide open throttle in the upper RPM's.
In short, the SST cars (stock turbo and cams) are limited to aprox 50 HP higher than what comes from the factory at this time. I suspect that an upgraded turbo, or cams would improve top end power while leaving torque alone...
Eventually there will be programer systems for the trasmission control unit, and upgraded clutch packs available... until then we are limited by the built in safety features of the transmission. I will be taking the car back to the track to see how a bit more torque and a lot more HP affects 1/4 mile times in the MR.
Keith
Running through the stock cat, using the "quiet" muffler option, and running without an upgraded lower IC pipe (being fabricated) my setup is basicly identical to the Buschur Racing BR 350 setup at the moment.
I was not able to get a baseline run on Dave Buschurs dyno, but the only other MR he has dynoed baselined at 220 wheel HP, and the average baseline HP for the GSR's he has dynoed was also about 220 wheel HP... so I will consider 220 a realistic starting point.
My final numbers were 270 wheel HP and 266 lb-ft of torque.
The SST transmission overides the Engine ECU if you are making too much torque and reduces power by going to part throttle at low to mid range RPM's and then wide open throttle in the upper RPM's.
In short, the SST cars (stock turbo and cams) are limited to aprox 50 HP higher than what comes from the factory at this time. I suspect that an upgraded turbo, or cams would improve top end power while leaving torque alone...
Eventually there will be programer systems for the trasmission control unit, and upgraded clutch packs available... until then we are limited by the built in safety features of the transmission. I will be taking the car back to the track to see how a bit more torque and a lot more HP affects 1/4 mile times in the MR.
Keith
Sep 23, 2008, 07:10 PM
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What about this thread?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=367308
This says they made approx 110 whp (if I read it correctly). Sorry I am new to Evos and think that I am missing something
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=367308
This says they made approx 110 whp (if I read it correctly). Sorry I am new to Evos and think that I am missing something
I lifted this quote from the tuner at AMS
As for peak numbers - keep in mind that the OP's car in this thread is on pump gas only with a stock cat in place
of course with meth and a full exhaust there is a potential for more gains
Sep 23, 2008, 07:46 PM
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ya I want a tune bad but dont wanna spend $12k on a tranny. I already have a 12s focus so my need for speed in a straight line is ok for now but I do love the evo for the handling. Keep up the good work.