dyno tune vs road tune
Jul 4, 2009, 03:53 PM
#31
I have road tuned over 100 cars with no problems what-so-ever. I have a well established route that I use during non-peak hours. It works great.
I keep an eye on the log while the driver drives. If I see knock at around 10 counts I shout for him to abort. If boost it too high, I do the same.
The only advantage to dyno tuning over road tuning is safety. That is it.
Those who argue that you should dyno tune and then road tune fail to answer the obvious, why not skip dyno tuning all together? Why should I do a tune twice on the dyno and then on the road? Just do it on the road WHERE THE CAR IS DRIVEN.
I have logged cars that were dyno tuned only to discover that they are knocking on the road. This is especially the case of a dynojet where the load of the rollers is less than the load on the road. So the tuner tends to set the timing/boost (ECU boost) too aggressive and then when the car is driven at higher loads it knocks.
Furthermore, there is no way to simulate the airflow over a car on the dyno no matter how large a fan you have. Most dyno tuning is also done with the hood open allowing the car to dissipate more heat than it usually does. I did a test once while adjusting fuel trims on an Evo. I logged Air Temps with the hood open and then with the hood closed and there was a difference of about 20*F in the temps. This is far from ideal when you are dyno tuning.
Another thing that most dyno tuners do not do is go WOT through the gears. This is essential for ECU boost control. You must make sure that the boost is consistent with every shift. This is a 1st through 4th WOT gear log on a stock Evo X. Notice how consistent the boost is per gear.
Just road tune the car. There are many road dynos that will give you estimated power gains. If you do not trust road dynos, simply look at the time elapsed from 30-85 mph on the base log vs. the time elapsed from 30-85 mph on the tuned log. If the time elapes in the latter is lower than the former, then your car has gained power. If it is not, then it did not.
I keep an eye on the log while the driver drives. If I see knock at around 10 counts I shout for him to abort. If boost it too high, I do the same.
The only advantage to dyno tuning over road tuning is safety. That is it.
Those who argue that you should dyno tune and then road tune fail to answer the obvious, why not skip dyno tuning all together? Why should I do a tune twice on the dyno and then on the road? Just do it on the road WHERE THE CAR IS DRIVEN.
I have logged cars that were dyno tuned only to discover that they are knocking on the road. This is especially the case of a dynojet where the load of the rollers is less than the load on the road. So the tuner tends to set the timing/boost (ECU boost) too aggressive and then when the car is driven at higher loads it knocks.
Furthermore, there is no way to simulate the airflow over a car on the dyno no matter how large a fan you have. Most dyno tuning is also done with the hood open allowing the car to dissipate more heat than it usually does. I did a test once while adjusting fuel trims on an Evo. I logged Air Temps with the hood open and then with the hood closed and there was a difference of about 20*F in the temps. This is far from ideal when you are dyno tuning.
Another thing that most dyno tuners do not do is go WOT through the gears. This is essential for ECU boost control. You must make sure that the boost is consistent with every shift. This is a 1st through 4th WOT gear log on a stock Evo X. Notice how consistent the boost is per gear.
Just road tune the car. There are many road dynos that will give you estimated power gains. If you do not trust road dynos, simply look at the time elapsed from 30-85 mph on the base log vs. the time elapsed from 30-85 mph on the tuned log. If the time elapes in the latter is lower than the former, then your car has gained power. If it is not, then it did not.
Last edited by nj1266; Jul 4, 2009 at 03:59 PM.
Jul 5, 2009, 05:18 AM
#32
"Those who argue that you should dyno tune and then road tune fail to answer the obvious, why not skip dyno tuning all together? Why should I do a tune twice on the dyno and then on the road? Just do it on the road WHERE THE CAR IS DRIVEN."
Because , some times , when you have more then drop in filter,
in the car, you want to be smart about it.
What i mean. when i have a race prepped car with new parts on it, some times hard to even start them. So in the garage much easier to adjust and assist on the engine. Also when those cars start pulling, turning, breaking there is a difference; i mean big difference in reading a lap top in the passenger seat.
So for a first couple of step is better easier to get a the engine running at least smooth for a road test. Then the tuner just have to watch the car on the track or the stage. When it pulls in then tweak it again and check it for safe running.
So a way i would like it, get a good base tune on the dyno. And go out there, lap the car or run it on thestage once and come back. Then tweak it.
And do that to a near pefrfect stage what a tuner thinks it is.
Because , some times , when you have more then drop in filter,
in the car, you want to be smart about it. What i mean. when i have a race prepped car with new parts on it, some times hard to even start them. So in the garage much easier to adjust and assist on the engine. Also when those cars start pulling, turning, breaking there is a difference; i mean big difference in reading a lap top in the passenger seat.
So for a first couple of step is better easier to get a the engine running at least smooth for a road test. Then the tuner just have to watch the car on the track or the stage. When it pulls in then tweak it again and check it for safe running.
So a way i would like it, get a good base tune on the dyno. And go out there, lap the car or run it on thestage once and come back. Then tweak it.
And do that to a near pefrfect stage what a tuner thinks it is.
Jul 10, 2009, 12:39 PM
#34
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