Safe to drive untuned?
Jul 26, 2009 | 03:05 AM
#1
Safe to drive untuned?
I wanted to know if it would be safe for me to drive my car with the mods listed below, until I get it tuned?
AMS CAI
AMS Widemonth DP
AMS HFC
AP CBE
AMS Intercooler w/ UICP and LICP
AMS Fuel Rail
Walbro Fuel Pump
DW 800cc Injectors
ETS Tubular Manifold
Dom 2 Turbo
I asked because Im in Iraq right now. I ordered all these parts plus others including cams(Which will be installed right before the tune). When I get back to the great USA
, I will be in NC where I plan to put all these parts on. It will be about a month before I get to go to PA on leave to see family and friends , which is when I will be going to see Sean Ivey for a tune. Im worried most about something going wrong the fuel upgrades and the turbo upgrade without a tune. Thanks in advice for the help and advice.
Ray
AMS CAI
AMS Widemonth DP
AMS HFC
AP CBE
AMS Intercooler w/ UICP and LICP
AMS Fuel Rail
Walbro Fuel Pump
DW 800cc Injectors
ETS Tubular Manifold
Dom 2 Turbo
I asked because Im in Iraq right now. I ordered all these parts plus others including cams(Which will be installed right before the tune). When I get back to the great USA
, I will be in NC where I plan to put all these parts on. It will be about a month before I get to go to PA on leave to see family and friends , which is when I will be going to see Sean Ivey for a tune. Im worried most about something going wrong the fuel upgrades and the turbo upgrade without a tune. Thanks in advice for the help and advice.Ray
Jul 26, 2009 | 09:17 AM
#6
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 860
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area
Also a warning. I just had mine tuned over the weekend with only the AMS short intake and dual exhaust, and my A/F ratios were in the mid 14s on the stock tune. The injectors change things a lot, but you have the potential to be running dangerously lean with the MAF housing change of the AMS intake.
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Jul 26, 2009 | 10:00 AM
#8
Also a warning. I just had mine tuned over the weekend with only the AMS short intake and dual exhaust, and my A/F ratios were in the mid 14s on the stock tune. The injectors change things a lot, but you have the potential to be running dangerously lean with the MAF housing change of the AMS intake.
The injectors are going to make his car run 20-25% richer assuming the stock injectors are 600cc. If the car runs at all it will be stumbling around very rich with fuel trims maxxed out trying to remove fuel in closed loop. The safer thing would be to at least scale the injectors and then keep it under 10-15 psi for the trip so you aren't drowning out the engine with excessive fuel. I have an AMS intake and use 665cc as my injector scaling value for DW 800cc injectors, here is a post I gave as a guideline to dial them in:
If you hook up your Boost source directly to the WGA you should only get a very conservative 18 psi of boost assuming a Forge WGA. Also be sure to verify your spark plug gaps aren't beyond .022" - .024" or you will start to have hessitation issues when cranking the boost past 24 psi which may have otherwise been fine on the stock turbo. If you tuned for the 800cc injectors and Walbro FP before installing the turbo, that should be plenty safe to drive the car to the tuner assuming you don't road race the car. If you haven't tuned for the injectors yet then try these settings to get you in the fuel trim ballpark for Deatschwerks 800cc injectors:
Fuel Injector Scaling: ( Lower settings relative to actual Injector size richens up idle and cruise LTFT's evenly, usually 15-20% lower is the range to be in)
665 cc/min (was good for my AMS Intake with 3" sensor housing)
to
680 cc/min
to
696 cc/min (likely better for Intakes using the stock 2.8" sensor housing)
Injector Battery Voltage Latency Compensation: (Raising these typically richens up Idle LTFT more than Cruise LTFT)
------------ Richer ----------------------------------------------------------- Leaner
4.69v ---- 6.120 -------------------------- 6.120 -------------------------- 6.120
7.04v ---- 6.120 -------------------------- 6.120 -------------------------- 5.904
9.38v ---- 3.384 -------------------------- 3.264 -------------------------- 3.048
11.73v -- 2.232 -------------------------- 2.136 -------------------------- 1.992
14.08v -- 1.632 -------------------------- 1.560 -------------------------- 1.464
16.42v -- 1.128 -------------------------- 1.104 -------------------------- 1.032
18.77v -- 0.816 -------------------------- 0.768 -------------------------- 0.744
LTFT = 0% Idle/2% Cruise ----- 5% Idle/3% Cruise ------------- ? Idle/cruise
My Idle LTFT is around 0% with this setup and cruise LTFT is hovering around 2% with the "Richer" settings that accomdate the AMS Intake with 3" sensor housing. These were EvoScan numbers and I found that they are about half the values reported in OBD2 programs so you want to be +-2.5% in Evoscan and +-5% in OBD2 LTFT's. I may dial back the voltage latency compensation slightly so that they both hover around 2% but it seems fine for now. Keep in mind that when you enter values that it rounds up or down to the nearest valid entry so fine tuning is limited slightly by what values it will accept.
Fuel Injector Scaling: ( Lower settings relative to actual Injector size richens up idle and cruise LTFT's evenly, usually 15-20% lower is the range to be in)
665 cc/min (was good for my AMS Intake with 3" sensor housing)
to
680 cc/min
to
696 cc/min (likely better for Intakes using the stock 2.8" sensor housing)
Injector Battery Voltage Latency Compensation: (Raising these typically richens up Idle LTFT more than Cruise LTFT)
------------ Richer ----------------------------------------------------------- Leaner
4.69v ---- 6.120 -------------------------- 6.120 -------------------------- 6.120
7.04v ---- 6.120 -------------------------- 6.120 -------------------------- 5.904
9.38v ---- 3.384 -------------------------- 3.264 -------------------------- 3.048
11.73v -- 2.232 -------------------------- 2.136 -------------------------- 1.992
14.08v -- 1.632 -------------------------- 1.560 -------------------------- 1.464
16.42v -- 1.128 -------------------------- 1.104 -------------------------- 1.032
18.77v -- 0.816 -------------------------- 0.768 -------------------------- 0.744
LTFT = 0% Idle/2% Cruise ----- 5% Idle/3% Cruise ------------- ? Idle/cruise
My Idle LTFT is around 0% with this setup and cruise LTFT is hovering around 2% with the "Richer" settings that accomdate the AMS Intake with 3" sensor housing. These were EvoScan numbers and I found that they are about half the values reported in OBD2 programs so you want to be +-2.5% in Evoscan and +-5% in OBD2 LTFT's. I may dial back the voltage latency compensation slightly so that they both hover around 2% but it seems fine for now. Keep in mind that when you enter values that it rounds up or down to the nearest valid entry so fine tuning is limited slightly by what values it will accept.
Last edited by Hiboost; Jul 26, 2009 at 10:05 AM.
Jul 26, 2009 | 01:24 PM
#9
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 860
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area
How on earth were you going from high 9's to mid 14's AFR with just an AMS short intake on the stock tune? On my Evo X it only leaned things out about .5 - 1.0 AFR and was fine until I got tuned. The AMS intake should only be leaning things out 5-10% tops, AMS can confirm.
Aug 11, 2009 | 03:26 PM
#12
You should really get it tuned. Will you be in Fort Bragg when you come home? There are a couple guys on the base who could tune you and make sure the car is safe. Then you could always take it to Ivey later down the road if you like.
Aug 11, 2009 | 03:40 PM
#14
Ill be at MCAS Cherry Point when I get home.
