tephra

iTrader: (6)

Hi Guys,

I am having a real problem with a tune for a rebuild I am working on.

Basically when doing a cold start the idle will be all jumpy.

The AFR will be crazy lean...

Other symptoms like high load, high MAF, high boost (well low vacuum) all exist, but I assume this is because of the jumpy idle.

These are ID2000's - with my MinimumIPW patch and running openloop idle.

Now here is the kicker, the AFR/idle will be perfect if you give the throttle a kick whilst its idling...



As you can see the IPW remains roughly the same, or locked at the minimum, however on either side of the TPS kick the idle/afr goes from bad to good...

NOTHING else has changed...

So what the HELL is going on?

Why does the SAME IPW result in total LEAN vs 13:1 AFR???

Its almost like the timing is wrong and missing spark or something??

If it was a hardware issue, why does the throttle kick fix it?

HELP!!!

tephra

iTrader: (6)

ID2000
AMS2.2
stock head.
kelford B's for cams (i think)
big **** off turbo
3.5" MAF
4" intake
usual other stuff

I should say he is also throwing a P0300.

which is why I think its timing related...

I should say, this particular motor has been rebuilt recently. The ROM was working fine before hand.

The rebuild (*AFAIK*) consisted of replacing the head (the old head was fubar'd after a valve let go and smashed into a piston)

Magnumpsi

iTrader: (2)

I would be curious to see what throttle position is Tephra. Did you log it by chance?

I have tuned that exact setup on multiple different cars and I haven't really seen that.

Mitch

tephra

iTrader: (6)

Hey Mitch,

Well like I said - before the motor let go this ROM was fine. Well the idle was fine... rich AFR, but thats the limit of the injectors more than anything...

All thats changed is the head... I am not sure if he redid the bottom end (ie new pistons), I presume he did, since they were damaged in the explosion

With TPS and RPM axis rescaled to see it all:


But like I said, why does the same IPW go from producing 18:1AFR (or even higher since 18 is max for the WB) to 13:1AFR???

tephra

iTrader: (6)

Also we have logged MIVEC Intake and Exhaust Actuals, and they are correct, ie 10* for Intake, 0* for Exhaust...

I thought a CAM sensor or CAS could be in the wrong way...

tephra

iTrader: (6)

I am investigating the fact that good old MUT29+2A (aka IPW) isn't what is delivered to the injectors...

Maybe something is cockblocking me at the very last stage..

Magnumpsi

iTrader: (2)

You dont happen to have a spare set of 2000's to put in to test do you? ( I understand probably not)

I would be curious to see what the fuel flow is out of the injector compared to what you are measuring for IPW. I have seen with the 2000's on a Motec or the stock ECU that once you start to try and go past 1.1ms the idle becomes very unstable as the injector is just no longer able to fuel correctly. (And yes I have seen the charts on ID's site)

It may be a timing issue, but it would be a strange issue unless there is some sort of start up trim that maybe has not been seen yet? I do see the timing advance before you blip the throttle is a lot more unstable.

Strange problem for sure.

Mitch

tephra

iTrader: (6)

No other ID2000's to try..

Well with the previous build we had a good idle with the MinimumIPW of 1.128ms.

Currently we are using 1.156ms. So if anything it should be better...

But yes anything under(or closer to 1.1ms) means the injectors don't fire properly/reliably..

I am getting him to check the injectors with a stethoscope - but maybe I will get him to pull them entirely...

Golden

iTrader: (1)

Lean AFR means that it is missing.

Did you check the plugs / gaps?

Also, the Timing is going to 60 in your graph. That could easily cause a miss.
(Unless I'm reading the chart wrong.)

Golden

iTrader: (1)

I want to add that you could probably call Eric (Kozmic). He has worked with these before. He doesn't get on the forums that often.

tephra

iTrader: (6)

Well they were working fine, that was about 4 months ago..

I will get him to check plugs and gap...

Magnumpsi

iTrader: (2)

I have done a lot of the 2000's on both the stock ecu and on Motec's and I haven't seen this issue. It is really strange issue and the more I look at the choppy timing the more I think Golden may be onto something with the plugs.

I am going to tune a Motec Evo X with 2000's right now. If you want any data let me know. ( I doubt it will help though lol)



Good luck Tephra.

Mitch

Clipse3GT

iTrader: (10)

I say it is hardware related... not a tuning issue.

I would inspect the plugs (known to fail on the X)

I would also check the Ohm resistance of the injectors see they are all the same (they should be). Also you can check the Ohm resistance of the plugs.

Also, if you have stock injectors try to put them in to confirm if it's injectors or plugs.

tephra

iTrader: (6)

yeh - he has some DW1300's that I have asked him to put in.

if it runs good, then I will get him to send the injectors back to ID for some analysis...

AIK

This motor has been destroyed with these injectors. They are probably simply damaged. That particularly could happen - it is necessary to think