S-AWC shut off/trouble
Jan 28, 2011, 01:32 PM
#76
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Even though we have had only down to -15C this winter, S-AWC service required started to show up my X MR about a week ago and stays on now. Reseting ECU does not help. No CEL is triggered. Cannot choose Tarmac/Grawel/Snow.
Is it the case when oil pump is gone? (This would be really bad as my car is out warranty)
Is there a way the pump could be REPAIRED, not replaced with new? What exactly happenes to the pump? Is it the wiring that is burnt?
Is it the case when oil pump is gone? (This would be really bad as my car is out warranty)
Is there a way the pump could be REPAIRED, not replaced with new? What exactly happenes to the pump? Is it the wiring that is burnt?
I don't know all the answers to your questions. Those are the symptoms I had when my first pump went the first winter I had the car.
Im sure the pump could be repaired, most anything can be repaired. Its just a question of find someone to do that and spending the time and effort repairing something that is most likely built to be replaced, not repaired.
As far as a I know driving the car without the pump won't damage the diff, it your S-AWC just won't work. That is what I have been told by mitsu and people on this forum anyhow.
The dealership charges out around 8-10 hours labour to change out the pump and I believe they pull the entire rear out out of the car. I could be wrong about that.
When I had it done under warranty the first time it was billed as 9 hours labor and around $500 CDN (or more) for the parts. So around a total of $1500 canadian. That was all covered by warranty.
About 6 months after the replacement was installed mitsubishi came out with a reflash for the ecu that controls that component of the car (which is seperate from the ECM). I know a few people "local" (same province) to me that have had the same problem. I just am not aware of it happening more then once.
Jan 28, 2011, 02:10 PM
#77
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I don't know all the answers to your questions. Those are the symptoms I had when my first pump went the first winter I had the car.
Im sure the pump could be repaired, most anything can be repaired. Its just a question of find someone to do that and spending the time and effort repairing something that is most likely built to be replaced, not repaired.
As far as a I know driving the car without the pump won't damage the diff, it your S-AWC just won't work. That is what I have been told by mitsu and people on this forum anyhow.
The dealership charges out around 8-10 hours labour to change out the pump and I believe they pull the entire rear out out of the car. I could be wrong about that.
When I had it done under warranty the first time it was billed as 9 hours labor and around $500 CDN (or more) for the parts. So around a total of $1500 canadian. That was all covered by warranty.
About 6 months after the replacement was installed mitsubishi came out with a reflash for the ecu that controls that component of the car (which is seperate from the ECM). I know a few people "local" (same province) to me that have had the same problem. I just am not aware of it happening more then once.
Im sure the pump could be repaired, most anything can be repaired. Its just a question of find someone to do that and spending the time and effort repairing something that is most likely built to be replaced, not repaired.
As far as a I know driving the car without the pump won't damage the diff, it your S-AWC just won't work. That is what I have been told by mitsu and people on this forum anyhow.
The dealership charges out around 8-10 hours labour to change out the pump and I believe they pull the entire rear out out of the car. I could be wrong about that.
When I had it done under warranty the first time it was billed as 9 hours labor and around $500 CDN (or more) for the parts. So around a total of $1500 canadian. That was all covered by warranty.
About 6 months after the replacement was installed mitsubishi came out with a reflash for the ecu that controls that component of the car (which is seperate from the ECM). I know a few people "local" (same province) to me that have had the same problem. I just am not aware of it happening more then once.
I know the symptoms show to the pump, I have read a few forums concerning this problem. I wonder why Mitsu did not do a recall for it... I am kind of sad of buying 50k USD car with these problems...
Jan 29, 2011, 08:00 AM
#78
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Thank you for your information. I will have to let it check at Mitsu service, I just wondered if the pump can be opened (than I believe it could be repaired and we have a lot of clever people here whou would not have a problem repair it) or if it is fuzed into one piece.
I know the symptoms show to the pump, I have read a few forums concerning this problem. I wonder why Mitsu did not do a recall for it... I am kind of sad of buying 50k USD car with these problems...
I know the symptoms show to the pump, I have read a few forums concerning this problem. I wonder why Mitsu did not do a recall for it... I am kind of sad of buying 50k USD car with these problems...
saying they could rebuild it and have done 3. So maybe its possible but I didn't look into it.
I am seeking other options now. As I have already had this part replaced under warranty once already and now they are possibly refusing me and I have read enough about the problem elsewhere I need a better solution then just replacing the pump. I really want to keep the S-AYC intact as thats the main reason I bought it over a Suburu.
I am not racing the car and it tends to die in colder weather when i am not pushing the car at all.
Jan 29, 2011, 12:35 PM
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On another forum I saw these guys: MG Auto's Evo Specialists (01773) 745400
saying they could rebuild it and have done 3. So maybe its possible but I didn't look into it.
I am seeking other options now. As I have already had this part replaced under warranty once already and now they are possibly refusing me and I have read enough about the problem elsewhere I need a better solution then just replacing the pump. I really want to keep the S-AYC intact as thats the main reason I bought it over a Suburu.
I am not racing the car and it tends to die in colder weather when i am not pushing the car at all.
saying they could rebuild it and have done 3. So maybe its possible but I didn't look into it.
I am seeking other options now. As I have already had this part replaced under warranty once already and now they are possibly refusing me and I have read enough about the problem elsewhere I need a better solution then just replacing the pump. I really want to keep the S-AYC intact as thats the main reason I bought it over a Suburu.
I am not racing the car and it tends to die in colder weather when i am not pushing the car at all.
So far I am really unhappy with Mitsubishi as I believed with such an expensive car I will not have troubles first few years. I do not take the car to track and do all the maintenance as scheduled and S-AWC dies... not good for Mitsubishi reputation.
Jan 30, 2011, 01:01 PM
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So I checked the S-AWC today:
1) after engine start the pump relay pushes energy (12V) to the pump for about 10 sec. Then S-AWC service req. appears and the relay shuts off.
2) I tried to connect +12V directly to the oil pump relay contact. (While ingnition in OFF position). I expected to hear some sound from the pump running but the car was silent. Does it mean the pump is dead?
1) after engine start the pump relay pushes energy (12V) to the pump for about 10 sec. Then S-AWC service req. appears and the relay shuts off.
2) I tried to connect +12V directly to the oil pump relay contact. (While ingnition in OFF position). I expected to hear some sound from the pump running but the car was silent. Does it mean the pump is dead?
Jan 31, 2011, 09:23 AM
#81
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Today I have taken away and disassembled the hydraulic unit - uffff, 3 hours of very dirty work... The unit is located in a place, where all the clay from streets goes and can be found even INSIDE electric connectors after disconnecting.
The problem with the unit is that the motor does not rotate and therefor does not make any pressure needed for differentials control. The reason why the motor does not work is clear if you take a look at the pictures.
The unit is so POORLY SEALED with gaskets, that water from street can get inside. As you can see, the unit if full of salt (which is used during winter to melt snow on roads), which is VERY AGGRESSIVE and causes rusting inside the unit and inside motor so that the spindle cannot rotate.
I tried to connect it directly to +12V, when I moved the spindle with hand it started slowly rotating, but the resistance to the spindle caused (probably) by rust it too big for the motor to start moving itself.
Unfortunatelly the motor is one piece and I cannot get inside to clean it. I will try to flow inside (through small holes which are in the motor body) something that will melt the rust and hope it wold help.
But I guess this will be problem of ALL EVOs running on salted roads unless Mitsubishi starts to produce better sealed units. :-(
Price of the unit in Czech rep. is USD 5000 !!! without service work.
The problem with the unit is that the motor does not rotate and therefor does not make any pressure needed for differentials control. The reason why the motor does not work is clear if you take a look at the pictures.
The unit is so POORLY SEALED with gaskets, that water from street can get inside. As you can see, the unit if full of salt (which is used during winter to melt snow on roads), which is VERY AGGRESSIVE and causes rusting inside the unit and inside motor so that the spindle cannot rotate.
I tried to connect it directly to +12V, when I moved the spindle with hand it started slowly rotating, but the resistance to the spindle caused (probably) by rust it too big for the motor to start moving itself.
Unfortunatelly the motor is one piece and I cannot get inside to clean it. I will try to flow inside (through small holes which are in the motor body) something that will melt the rust and hope it wold help.
But I guess this will be problem of ALL EVOs running on salted roads unless Mitsubishi starts to produce better sealed units. :-(
Price of the unit in Czech rep. is USD 5000 !!! without service work.
Last edited by xhomm02; Jan 31, 2011 at 09:32 AM.
Jan 31, 2011, 01:04 PM
#82
Today I have taken away and disassembled the hydraulic unit - uffff, 3 hours of very dirty work... The unit is located in a place, where all the clay from streets goes and can be found even INSIDE electric connectors after disconnecting.
The problem with the unit is that the motor does not rotate and therefor does not make any pressure needed for differentials control. The reason why the motor does not work is clear if you take a look at the pictures.
The unit is so POORLY SEALED with gaskets, that water from street can get inside. As you can see, the unit if full of salt (which is used during winter to melt snow on roads), which is VERY AGGRESSIVE and causes rusting inside the unit and inside motor so that the spindle cannot rotate.
I tried to connect it directly to +12V, when I moved the spindle with hand it started slowly rotating, but the resistance to the spindle caused (probably) by rust it too big for the motor to start moving itself.
Unfortunatelly the motor is one piece and I cannot get inside to clean it. I will try to flow inside (through small holes which are in the motor body) something that will melt the rust and hope it wold help.
But I guess this will be problem of ALL EVOs running on salted roads unless Mitsubishi starts to produce better sealed units. :-(
Price of the unit in Czech rep. is USD 5000 !!! without service work.
The problem with the unit is that the motor does not rotate and therefor does not make any pressure needed for differentials control. The reason why the motor does not work is clear if you take a look at the pictures.
The unit is so POORLY SEALED with gaskets, that water from street can get inside. As you can see, the unit if full of salt (which is used during winter to melt snow on roads), which is VERY AGGRESSIVE and causes rusting inside the unit and inside motor so that the spindle cannot rotate.
I tried to connect it directly to +12V, when I moved the spindle with hand it started slowly rotating, but the resistance to the spindle caused (probably) by rust it too big for the motor to start moving itself.
Unfortunatelly the motor is one piece and I cannot get inside to clean it. I will try to flow inside (through small holes which are in the motor body) something that will melt the rust and hope it wold help.
But I guess this will be problem of ALL EVOs running on salted roads unless Mitsubishi starts to produce better sealed units. :-(
Price of the unit in Czech rep. is USD 5000 !!! without service work.
Jan 31, 2011, 03:33 PM
#83
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That makes a lot of sense. It doesn't completely explain why my first one didn't last 2 months into winter and my second lasted through 1.5 winters though.
I do live in a nortern climate with lots of snow and salt on the roads.
I also remember my first one being of similar looking condition on the outside. As it was a dealership replacment under warranty I never did look inside it.
I always thought colder temperatures had something to do with it since last winter was relatively mild and this one and the one 2 years previous were a lot colder.
Also the ATF fluid being frozen made me think that the pump not getting any suction pressure would be a cause of failure.
Your reasoning seems very sound. That price also seem very very high. Is it also very expensive to import from other places for that part?
I do live in a nortern climate with lots of snow and salt on the roads.
I also remember my first one being of similar looking condition on the outside. As it was a dealership replacment under warranty I never did look inside it.
I always thought colder temperatures had something to do with it since last winter was relatively mild and this one and the one 2 years previous were a lot colder.
Also the ATF fluid being frozen made me think that the pump not getting any suction pressure would be a cause of failure.
Your reasoning seems very sound. That price also seem very very high. Is it also very expensive to import from other places for that part?
Feb 1, 2011, 12:32 AM
#84
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That makes a lot of sense. It doesn't completely explain why my first one didn't last 2 months into winter and my second lasted through 1.5 winters though.
I do live in a nortern climate with lots of snow and salt on the roads.
I also remember my first one being of similar looking condition on the outside. As it was a dealership replacment under warranty I never did look inside it.
I always thought colder temperatures had something to do with it since last winter was relatively mild and this one and the one 2 years previous were a lot colder.
Also the ATF fluid being frozen made me think that the pump not getting any suction pressure would be a cause of failure.
Your reasoning seems very sound. That price also seem very very high. Is it also very expensive to import from other places for that part?
I do live in a nortern climate with lots of snow and salt on the roads.
I also remember my first one being of similar looking condition on the outside. As it was a dealership replacment under warranty I never did look inside it.
I always thought colder temperatures had something to do with it since last winter was relatively mild and this one and the one 2 years previous were a lot colder.
Also the ATF fluid being frozen made me think that the pump not getting any suction pressure would be a cause of failure.
Your reasoning seems very sound. That price also seem very very high. Is it also very expensive to import from other places for that part?
Then I will definitelly make some shield and seal all mounting points and wholes for wirinig with silicone, I hope it would be salt resistant.
If the motor cannot be repaired, I will buy in US, including shipping and customs it would be for half the price here...
Feb 6, 2011, 01:52 PM
#85
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This does raise my hopes a bit since its cause of failure would be environmental rather then anything else, which would increase my chances of getting it replaced under warranty yet again.
Although its pathetic on mitsubishi's part.
Although its pathetic on mitsubishi's part.
Feb 6, 2011, 02:53 PM
#86
sheesh, I am now scared that this is gonna happen to mine, granted my gsr isn't daily driven or see any salt. Basically it seems like once the pump fails it just turns into a Ralliart. So does that mean the Ralliart doesn't have the ACD Pump? Is driving the vehicle with the ACD pump broken bad for the vehicle drivetrain at all?
Feb 7, 2011, 06:24 AM
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sheesh, I am now scared that this is gonna happen to mine, granted my gsr isn't daily driven or see any salt. Basically it seems like once the pump fails it just turns into a Ralliart. So does that mean the Ralliart doesn't have the ACD Pump? Is driving the vehicle with the ACD pump broken bad for the vehicle drivetrain at all?
Feb 7, 2011, 11:19 AM
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Well, today I got my motor for hydraulic unit repaired:
-carbons were stucked and had to be replaced
-bearings were squeezing and had to be replaced
-rust from inside had to be cleaned
-forefront had to be welded to the motor body again
I sealed all holes with silicone paste, assembled the unit and tomorrow I am going to put it in place and do the bleeding, then it should work like before.
Looks like Mitsu quality goes towards china products...
-carbons were stucked and had to be replaced
-bearings were squeezing and had to be replaced
-rust from inside had to be cleaned
-forefront had to be welded to the motor body again
I sealed all holes with silicone paste, assembled the unit and tomorrow I am going to put it in place and do the bleeding, then it should work like before.
Looks like Mitsu quality goes towards china products...
Feb 7, 2011, 11:59 AM
#89
Out of curiosity would the IX ACD pump have the same issue of bad sealing?
Mine is fine but I drive lots in the winter with that salt. I will rustproof the under body come spring (just bought the car in Nov and it was too late).
I'm wondering if I should at the very least try to cover it with something to keep the gunk out of it while it's fresh. I just tripped 40,000 miles yesterday.
Mine is fine but I drive lots in the winter with that salt. I will rustproof the under body come spring (just bought the car in Nov and it was too late).
I'm wondering if I should at the very least try to cover it with something to keep the gunk out of it while it's fresh. I just tripped 40,000 miles yesterday.
Feb 7, 2011, 02:06 PM
#90
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I don't know about the IX pump but I read of the VIII's having problems. Not sure if its related or just a failure prone part in certain conditions.