Attn tranny rebuild specialist
Jul 9, 2009, 01:00 PM
#1
Attn tranny rebuild specialist ***UPDATED***
Hey guys,
This is an open invitation to any tranny rebuild shop that believes they can resolve my notchy shifting once and for all.
I will do everything in my power to document every stage of my quest. While I wouldn't consider the shifting quality to be junk, it definately doesn't shift smoothly at all especially as a DD. I have aprox 24k miles and am sick of tired of waiting for it to smooth out. Tried Amsoil and it helped a bit. I would normally contact the vendors directly as I have done with previous vehicles and ask for quotes...But this time I want it to be as public as possible.
Below are my symptoms/expectations:
2008 Evolution X GSR Transmission
Vehicle Build Date = NOV 2007
Miles on tranny = ~24,000
Current power level unknown - car is stock with Testpipe and EcuFlash self tune...guess 280-300whp (trapped 108 in 1/4 mile)
Issues:
Moderately to severely NOTCHY shifting during N-1, 1-2, and 2-3 shifts especially at LOWER rpms. Higher rpms (>5000) considerably smoother.
I notice that the “notchiness” varies from day to day, temperature to temperature. >90º shifts a little smoother.
Never grinds, but I do feel some blockage at times. **update** Feeling some slight grinding occassionally now.
My suspicions:
Factory clutch not disengaging properly..can feel car move when shifting from N-1 on flat ground. (new southbend stg 3 clutch (feramic) with minimal marcel and sprung hub awaiting install) as well as ams retaining ring and clutch line.
“Feels” like internal tranny lubrication not adequately getting to hub/sleeve/syncros
TRE stated:
Mitsu changed the hub/sleeve/syncro design after my build date. This could not be verified by Jnztuning via a CAPS search.
My expectations after rebuild:
1. Newest Mitsu hub/sleeve/syncro setup (if one exists)
2. Improved retaining pins on diff...see post: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...solutions.html
3. Smooth shifting into/out of any gear at any rpm. (butter smooth would be great!!)
4. 20% stronger internals from shot peening internals (400awtq will be the max this tranny will see)
5. NO ENGRAVING or marking at all on tranny and please use sealant that resembles Mitsu sealant as I am attempting to retain the factory powertrain warranty.
6. Full support after rebuild to iron out any issues that may exist.
I do not need a full fledged race tranny that can support 800 hp...This tranny will NEVER see more than 400awtq in this car.
Let's find a fix guys!!
***UPDATE 9-3-2009***
Well Guys,
I have been reserving judgment until I had a chance to put some miles on the tranny and new clutch. Car has now been driven 350 miles with the new setup.
First let me say right off the bat that these steps did NOT resolve the notchiness. I am disappointed to say the least.
I spoke with John about the tranny at length and basically he stated that the tranny was in immaculate condition when he received it, and not much else beside the REM process could really be done. My main concern was if the clutch was really dragging that there would be accelerated/abnormal wear on the syncro's. This was not the case, John found nothing "wrong" with the syncro's sliders or gear facings. I was told that the REM process was accomplished on the sliders and gears, and I can tell you that it does overall shift smoother, however the 2nd-3rd shift still produces a good amount of notchiness. I suspect that a tranny shop cannot fully overcome engineering issues.
For those concerned with fluids, I did switch from Amsoil to Redline Mt-90 on John's suggestion and it seems to shift better overall, but that could be the REM or fluids or both working. Cold fluid still produces much more notchiness. I am contemplating draining a quart of the MT-90 and putting in one quart of the MTL in to "thin" it out a bit.
I was also told that the center diff was substantially strengthened, so I believe my efforts were not in vain, as I *should* be immune now from the infamous diff retaining pin failures.
For those following the clutch portion of this, I am somewhat disappointed in my Southbend clutch at the moment. I am reserving full judgment until I reach the break-in point since I only have 350 of the required 750 miles. I will not go into detail on this yet. I am working through email with SouthBend trying to figure out our course of action.
The clutch operates fine, and I can drive the car normally. My issues are more related to pedal engagement height, pressure and transition. I do not have any weird clutch noises and it is not slipping though I have not really pushed it since I am still in the break-in period. I also do NOT believe the new clutch is playing a role in the notchiness, I have verified that the clutch is not dragging at all.
Can anyone answer this question for me:
In the old push style clutches, as clutch disc wore down, the engagement point of the pedal would move up to the top.
Am I right in assuming that on pull style clutches the opposite is true?
Since the PP is concave before installation and the springs of the pressure plate move outward as you bolt the clutch to the flywheel, I would assume that the engagement point moves closer to the floor as the clutch wears on a pull style clutch.
My engagement point of my southbend starts at half pedal but finally grabs about 1 inch from the very top, as bad as, or worse than stock. This makes it difficult to feather it, as your working against the PP pressure and the pedal assistance spring which is not linear toward the top of the throw.
This is an open invitation to any tranny rebuild shop that believes they can resolve my notchy shifting once and for all.
I will do everything in my power to document every stage of my quest. While I wouldn't consider the shifting quality to be junk, it definately doesn't shift smoothly at all especially as a DD. I have aprox 24k miles and am sick of tired of waiting for it to smooth out. Tried Amsoil and it helped a bit. I would normally contact the vendors directly as I have done with previous vehicles and ask for quotes...But this time I want it to be as public as possible.
Below are my symptoms/expectations:
2008 Evolution X GSR Transmission
Vehicle Build Date = NOV 2007
Miles on tranny = ~24,000
Current power level unknown - car is stock with Testpipe and EcuFlash self tune...guess 280-300whp (trapped 108 in 1/4 mile)
Issues:
Moderately to severely NOTCHY shifting during N-1, 1-2, and 2-3 shifts especially at LOWER rpms. Higher rpms (>5000) considerably smoother.
I notice that the “notchiness” varies from day to day, temperature to temperature. >90º shifts a little smoother.
Never grinds, but I do feel some blockage at times. **update** Feeling some slight grinding occassionally now.
My suspicions:
Factory clutch not disengaging properly..can feel car move when shifting from N-1 on flat ground. (new southbend stg 3 clutch (feramic) with minimal marcel and sprung hub awaiting install) as well as ams retaining ring and clutch line.
“Feels” like internal tranny lubrication not adequately getting to hub/sleeve/syncros
TRE stated:
Mitsu changed the hub/sleeve/syncro design after my build date. This could not be verified by Jnztuning via a CAPS search.
My expectations after rebuild:
1. Newest Mitsu hub/sleeve/syncro setup (if one exists)
2. Improved retaining pins on diff...see post: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...solutions.html
3. Smooth shifting into/out of any gear at any rpm. (butter smooth would be great!!)
4. 20% stronger internals from shot peening internals (400awtq will be the max this tranny will see)
5. NO ENGRAVING or marking at all on tranny and please use sealant that resembles Mitsu sealant as I am attempting to retain the factory powertrain warranty.
6. Full support after rebuild to iron out any issues that may exist.
I do not need a full fledged race tranny that can support 800 hp...This tranny will NEVER see more than 400awtq in this car.
Let's find a fix guys!!
***UPDATE 9-3-2009***
Well Guys,
I have been reserving judgment until I had a chance to put some miles on the tranny and new clutch. Car has now been driven 350 miles with the new setup.
First let me say right off the bat that these steps did NOT resolve the notchiness. I am disappointed to say the least.
I spoke with John about the tranny at length and basically he stated that the tranny was in immaculate condition when he received it, and not much else beside the REM process could really be done. My main concern was if the clutch was really dragging that there would be accelerated/abnormal wear on the syncro's. This was not the case, John found nothing "wrong" with the syncro's sliders or gear facings. I was told that the REM process was accomplished on the sliders and gears, and I can tell you that it does overall shift smoother, however the 2nd-3rd shift still produces a good amount of notchiness. I suspect that a tranny shop cannot fully overcome engineering issues.
For those concerned with fluids, I did switch from Amsoil to Redline Mt-90 on John's suggestion and it seems to shift better overall, but that could be the REM or fluids or both working. Cold fluid still produces much more notchiness. I am contemplating draining a quart of the MT-90 and putting in one quart of the MTL in to "thin" it out a bit.
I was also told that the center diff was substantially strengthened, so I believe my efforts were not in vain, as I *should* be immune now from the infamous diff retaining pin failures.
For those following the clutch portion of this, I am somewhat disappointed in my Southbend clutch at the moment. I am reserving full judgment until I reach the break-in point since I only have 350 of the required 750 miles. I will not go into detail on this yet. I am working through email with SouthBend trying to figure out our course of action.
The clutch operates fine, and I can drive the car normally. My issues are more related to pedal engagement height, pressure and transition. I do not have any weird clutch noises and it is not slipping though I have not really pushed it since I am still in the break-in period. I also do NOT believe the new clutch is playing a role in the notchiness, I have verified that the clutch is not dragging at all.
Can anyone answer this question for me:
In the old push style clutches, as clutch disc wore down, the engagement point of the pedal would move up to the top.
Am I right in assuming that on pull style clutches the opposite is true?
Since the PP is concave before installation and the springs of the pressure plate move outward as you bolt the clutch to the flywheel, I would assume that the engagement point moves closer to the floor as the clutch wears on a pull style clutch.
My engagement point of my southbend starts at half pedal but finally grabs about 1 inch from the very top, as bad as, or worse than stock. This makes it difficult to feather it, as your working against the PP pressure and the pedal assistance spring which is not linear toward the top of the throw.
Last edited by tsitalon1; Sep 3, 2009 at 05:42 AM.
Jul 9, 2009, 01:12 PM
#3
Dave, that was my initial thought, however, several people have reported simply changing the clutch didn't help resolve the notchiness at all. Could you share any experience you have that points to the clutch more than the tranny itself?
Another reason I opted not to go with the twin is to retain the factory powertrain warranty. I've had good luck with my X in that Mitsu has stepped up several times to resolve my issues. So I would like the clutch to be invisible to them in the event something stupid happens that *should* be covered.
Another reason I opted not to go with the twin is to retain the factory powertrain warranty. I've had good luck with my X in that Mitsu has stepped up several times to resolve my issues. So I would like the clutch to be invisible to them in the event something stupid happens that *should* be covered.
Jul 9, 2009, 01:43 PM
#4
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Factory clutch not disengaging properly..can feel car move when shifting from N-1 on flat ground
The trans suffers from center diff issues as well that need taken care of while in there.
Jul 10, 2009, 05:42 AM
#6
Dave / John,
I am ready do do something about this issue. I am sick of it. I am leery of simply replacing the clutch only to find that I may be in the same position after the clutch swap. So I thought it may be best to have the tranny looked at as well, since it'll be down anyway.
Would it be your advice for me to simply replace the clutch first and see where that leads me, versus having the tranny inspected as well? Won't I still have the possibility of the diff retaining pin issue anyway?
Car is used 99% as a DD. Probably will never track, might drag every now and then.
I am open for suggestion and ready to move on this in any direction you guys think is best.
I am ready do do something about this issue. I am sick of it. I am leery of simply replacing the clutch only to find that I may be in the same position after the clutch swap. So I thought it may be best to have the tranny looked at as well, since it'll be down anyway.
Would it be your advice for me to simply replace the clutch first and see where that leads me, versus having the tranny inspected as well? Won't I still have the possibility of the diff retaining pin issue anyway?
Car is used 99% as a DD. Probably will never track, might drag every now and then.
I am open for suggestion and ready to move on this in any direction you guys think is best.
Last edited by tsitalon1; Jul 10, 2009 at 05:44 AM.
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Jul 10, 2009, 06:55 AM
#8
"Your tranny is operating under normal tolerances" was both the dealer and MMNA response.
My wanting to maintain the PT warranty is mostly tired to stuff like motor/rear diff/ and transfer case.. they rest I can fix with my own $.... I don't have a dealer near me anyway..
My wanting to maintain the PT warranty is mostly tired to stuff like motor/rear diff/ and transfer case.. they rest I can fix with my own $.... I don't have a dealer near me anyway..
Jul 10, 2009, 07:08 AM
#9
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"Your tranny is operating under normal tolerances" was both the dealer and MMNA response.
My wanting to maintain the PT warranty is mostly tired to stuff like motor/rear diff/ and transfer case.. they rest I can fix with my own $.... I don't have a dealer near me anyway..
My wanting to maintain the PT warranty is mostly tired to stuff like motor/rear diff/ and transfer case.. they rest I can fix with my own $.... I don't have a dealer near me anyway..
Jul 16, 2009, 06:33 AM
#13
Quick update for those interested.
I've been in communication with John Shepherd and he has agreed to tackle the issue and provide support in the event the issue exists afterwards.
I will begin pulling the tranny ~ 7/24/09, wish me luck
I've been in communication with John Shepherd and he has agreed to tackle the issue and provide support in the event the issue exists afterwards.
I will begin pulling the tranny ~ 7/24/09, wish me luck
Jul 16, 2009, 07:12 AM
#14
interesting... i have a 11/2008 X and I have some tranny problems.
miss-shifts and clunky changes are the main ones..
also SOMETIMES when i am stopped with it in 1st and my foot on the clutch after a while something happens and i can feel the gear level move a bit (i leave my hand resting on the gear knob)
not sure what that's all about, but I too feel like the clutch isn't properly dis-engaged..
i was going to pull the restricter out and then maybe adjust the clutch pedal to see if i can make the dis-engagement high a bit lower..
miss-shifts and clunky changes are the main ones..
also SOMETIMES when i am stopped with it in 1st and my foot on the clutch after a while something happens and i can feel the gear level move a bit (i leave my hand resting on the gear knob)
not sure what that's all about, but I too feel like the clutch isn't properly dis-engaged..
i was going to pull the restricter out and then maybe adjust the clutch pedal to see if i can make the dis-engagement high a bit lower..
Jul 16, 2009, 07:55 AM
#15
interesting... i have a 11/2008 X and I have some tranny problems.
miss-shifts and clunky changes are the main ones..
also SOMETIMES when i am stopped with it in 1st and my foot on the clutch after a while something happens and i can feel the gear level move a bit (i leave my hand resting on the gear knob)
not sure what that's all about, but I too feel like the clutch isn't properly dis-engaged..
i was going to pull the restricter out and then maybe adjust the clutch pedal to see if i can make the dis-engagement high a bit lower..
miss-shifts and clunky changes are the main ones..
also SOMETIMES when i am stopped with it in 1st and my foot on the clutch after a while something happens and i can feel the gear level move a bit (i leave my hand resting on the gear knob)
not sure what that's all about, but I too feel like the clutch isn't properly dis-engaged..
i was going to pull the restricter out and then maybe adjust the clutch pedal to see if i can make the dis-engagement high a bit lower..
I know my clutch is dragging, I am just not sure what else is wrong, so I'll let Shep look at it.. I will use this thread as my documented journey 