chkmgnt59

iTrader: (3)

My car is my DD, but will be retired in the next few years to track only. I go to road courses as much as I possibly can, and want to add some power over the stock turbo setup. 93 pump is my only option due to no e85 available at the tracks, and no tow vehicle to bring my own gas. Meth intrigues me, but tephra just came out with failsafe map switching, and its not on AP :-(. Can't really switch since cobb does my tuning.

So my question is, do I go:
1) FP Red and take ~440whp (cobb's mustang)
2) FP Black (yes, it exists. Call Robert and convince him you're not a dbag and he'll sell you one). Not sure how much power this would make, maybe 500whp or so on 93.
3) 35r kit. Lower boost to make 500-550 whp, but lose the low end to the red, and maybe some to the black. Also could add more power any time I wanted if I decided to play dyno queen. Further, would I go ets or buschur kit.... (opinions wanted)

Currently have 214-b, 1300cc DW, 3 port, perrin rear strut bar sitting in my car to be installed with whichever turbo. 255 pump/fmic/intake/turbo-back already on the car.

Will also get buschur diff pin kit, act hdg6 clutch, upgraded master cyl, and build the block as soon as funds allow (not too long for sure though).

My conflict is that in the road courses, the revs wont really drop enough for the low end the red gives to be worth losing the top end of the black/35r. The black is untested so it might be a total dud, but with the larger hot side of the X turbo vs the IX, it theoretically should perform better... And a 35r will give the top end I want, but if road racing will suck with no low end, I wont like the turbo.

What would you do?

spdracerut

iTrader: (2)

Pure track car? Go big or go home; GT35. Since HiBoost has tracked his car extensively with the GT3076R, maybe ask his opinion on if he'd go bigger for a pure track car.

mlomker

iTrader: (1)

Black

murlo26

iTrader: (9)

Well I haven't said anything up until this point since Robert asked me not to say anything but the FPblack is not a production unit yet.

I will be putting one on my car for my build though, so if you want to wait a bit to see how it performs my build should be done by end of July.

Again, the black doesn't exist yet, no one has one yet.

1800bigk

Could you run the course and log your RPMs? If I were doing this I would like to see what RPM range I use around the course. Just looking at dyno charts around here I have found that on plain pump gas a 35r owns in terms of tq & hp over stock framed turbos at rpms above 4500, below 4500 the stock framed turbos have the edge. I have looked at so many charts recently because I am trying to decide too and I think the 35r's have peak tq around 350 ft/lb at 4.5 - 5k rpm and it drops to around 315 at redline where as some stock framed tubos peak around 350 ft/lb at 4 - 4.5k rpms but they drop to around 280 ft/lb at redline. I only looked at pump gas charts.

I say 35r, unless it is a short course with lots of tight turns. Take a look at the AFI kit very high quality and price is on par with the others you mentioned.
http://www.afiturbo.com/store/produc...27d2c3a3403cba

Hiboost

iTrader: (9)

I'll chime in here with my experience with the GT30 which is likely similar to the FP Red turbo setup in terms of response in most regards. The nice part is you can get away with revving from 4500-7500 in 4th gear and not really lose any speed, where as a larger turbo would force you to always downshift to the next lower gear to power out of a turn properly. I think it's a great combo if your engine isn't built to run past 7500 reliably on a road course.

That said I plan on upgrading to a slightly bigger turbo that is sized between the GT30r and GT35r in terms of airflow. If you went with a 35r then you could potentially erase any 300-500 rpm spool loss with a 2.2L stroker setup. If your engine can be built up to safely rev to 8000 or 8500 on a road course that can also just shift your power band higher so that the low end doesn't matter as much. AMS also has their 750x turbos but not sure if they are officially released yet. Probably the best bet without building up the engine is to go with a CBRD BB-X combo or ask for a slightly larger wheel setup that's used on time attack cars.

The larger turbo cars are harder to drive since you always need to be in the perfect RPM band and gear, but once you figure it all out it can be a bloody fast combination, such as a certain Evo X driven by Ryan Gates.

chkmgnt59

iTrader: (3)

^^ murlo, I kinda figured you'd talked to him about getting one. Cobb really wants me to get one, as they're getting some of the first units and they want to play with it lol

1800bigk, I wont be out there for a bit (building a house so we're too busy for the next few months), but I dont think I drop below 4k at any part of the course, and since an engine build would be coming with 8500 redlines, downshifting wouldn't be such an issue. So maybe either black/35r....

Might wait for murlo's numbers before making a decision, or be a test mule with him :-)
I just dont want to be pissed if I dont break 500 on 93 pump, and I know a 35r will do that on a fairly low lvl of boost.

murlo26

iTrader: (9)

Chk, 500 on pump would be a lot, i guess it depends on the dyno...I know a 2.3L road race car Evo 9 with an FPblack and E85 at 31psi made 520whp on my tuners dyno...so I am shooting for 500whp for starters at probably 33-34psi. Robert is on vacation now, so I can't order yet, lol.

mlomker

iTrader: (1)

I think that'd be on the edge. Tough to say. Might as well go 35r if that's a priority.

murlo26

iTrader: (9)

I agree with Lomker...the X stock frame turbo's so far haven't seemed to be as good. However the t3 turbo's seem to make as much power or more and spool faster on the X than on the 8/9. Honestly, it almost seems smarter to do a t3 than a stock frame on the X. I am really surprised more haven't done it. I'll end up with one if this turbo doesn't turn out how i want.

1800bigk

pump gas, 8500 rpm built motor, then 33r / 35r. Anything smaller is sure to disappoint.

chkmgnt59

iTrader: (3)

on cobb's plano dyno, a fully equipped red will get to 440. Exactly what i'm worried about is the black not adding 60whp over the red for 500. The 35r wont spool much slower, but it'll give 500 at ~25 psi (hell buschur got 520 at 28psi on his dyno, this one reads 6% higher). And buscher used a blouch 600r, i'd go 6262, so add a bit to the top end.

I guess a t3 6262 is the way to go.. just hoping I could same some $$ with the black.

So, loker, murlo, chris if you're still reading this.. which kit would you go with, ets or buschur. I talked to ams, they told me another 6-8 weeks, and they told me that a year ago, so I'm just writing them off. Buschur seems to have better heat management, but you have to remove the front tower bar? I dont know if I want to do that? ETS has proven to make the power, and i've never head of any heat issues. Thoughts?

murlo26

iTrader: (9)

Honestly, buschur or ETS would seem to be a good setup. I would personally go with Buschur I think because their design looks a little better to me. But I think both are a good choice and like you said, buschur's heat management looks better.

Call buschur and see if he still has a deal going on his kits...he did before since he had a few in stock i think.

blk-majik

iTrader: (6)

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Also been holding off on supporting engine mods til I decide what turbo I'd like to use. One thing I'm really considering is my experience level, which is pretty low (just club racing, no overtaking or timing). Given that, I'm leaning towards a more power limited turbo with more forgiving spool characteristics, since I know I'll be making a lot of mistakes with my shifts for a while. If I get the driver mod where it needs to be, I'll justify an altered setup down the road. But for now, no use overshooting and hurting my progress.

Dunno if that'll help you or not, but thats definitely one thing to consider that might help narrow things down for you.

CBRD

iTrader: (60)

Let me know if we can help,

we have a few options Id be more than happy to discuss with you.

cheers

cb