CBRD

iTrader: (60)

Hello everyone,

There has been some talk recently (and more emails and pm's coming to me) regarding utilizing a stock housing turbo versus a tubular garrett style (mainly ours or AMS's nice cast kit).

I have been going over some charts from our tial setup and some of our clients BBX's. I have been getting the following questions..

"should I run the BBX or an FP turbo... or go with a tial style setup.... what are the benefits of each...?"

"I plan on building my motor, so I'm not sure which way to go... stock housing or garrett style tubular...?"

Here is some basic insight...

We have seen a max of 448whp on our dyno on a BBX on 93 octane with cams and bolt ons with our tubular manifold. Generally without cams they make 400-420 depending on weather.

We ran our Tial setup with both our 33RB and 30RB in .82 on our customers car, and just did basic boost runs (without really dialing in the AFR curve) to see what the spool and power levels looked like.

The 33RB broke 450whp within 3 pulls of being on the car... the 30RB broke 440whp very easily. I have basically overlayed the BBX full (an average build in warm temps) versus the 30RB (.82)...

Both cars had ALL of our parts.. fmic, ic pipes, manifolds, turbos, etc....

here is the overlay...



you can see the difference in spool up, both in 3rd gear. Now, consider that if we put the .63 hotside on (as recommended for people running under 500whp) we would see about another 200rpm pickup in spool.

Note also, this is just an average BBX full plot, i have some overlays with 420whp etc, but I am mainly trying to show the change in powerband with this plot.

You can see the easy identifiable aspect... if you are going to rev over 7500 RPM, the tial housing setup really shows benefit. As a matter of fact, I think if we revved this car to 8100 rpm, it would have picked up 30more whp, but this was a customer car and he just wanted a mild 440whp.

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If you are planning to do a built motor and rev over 7800 rpm, I would choose the Tial housing because it works well there, and is SOOO nice to work on. It took us 42 mins to swap from our 33RB to the 30RB during our testing. If we utilized quick disconnects on the fluid lines it would take even a few minutes less. It's also very light with the tubular manifold and downpipe.

For those people running upgraded cams, staying on stock block.. and if you ALREADY have an intake, downpipe, etc... then your money will be better invested in a stock housing turbo like ours or something from FP.

But for someone that is bone stock, and has decent plans for the car... one of the full garrett style kits may be your pick for your long term goals.

Just some food for thought, your input is appreciated

cb

OBP

iTrader: (7)

Great Post, thanks for the insight this should make some people have easier decisions to make.

CBRD

iTrader: (60)

again,

this is VERY basic,

you obviously will have guys that will want to make 700whp etc.. but I just wanted to give an idea of two different packages with similar power in mind.

I hope this makes some people think about their goals, and what makes the most sense. We always try to make sure people only have to purchase performance mods one time, and not have to sell to replace etc...

cheers

cb

Hiboost

iTrader: (9)

Interesting plots, this should help me decide which path to take moving forward.

scheides

iTrader: (10)

Awesome! Just curious what diameter tubing this kit utilizes? Seems like the stock turbo manifolds are all on the smaller side but people going big want bigger runners too. I think it was buschur that showed a massive powerband advantage on a conservative setup (30psi) going smaller and the bigger diameter manifolds really not helping anything until really pushing the setup at 40psi+.

Great article CBRD!

CBRD

iTrader: (60)

both our stock housing and TIAL kit use the 1.25" runners, we feel that is optimal for this setup...

We have used both 1.5" and 1.25" and prefer the smaller for anything under 650whp on our dyno

cheers

cb

Maverickvf84

Yoooooo Chad!!!!!!!U the Man!Plus we already talked alil about my build plans and next turbo upgrade!Just waitin for the spring to come back around u already kno ill b back up there for my upgrade!Car runnin nice BTW...No issues...Knock on Wood!

Oh Yea...I told Brent to keep a manifold waiting for me,lol

steinvb12

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for that write-up. I am one of those who want to get as much as I can out of the stock block, with cams/springs the only thing done to the engine.

I am undecided between something like the BBX or 30RB, and this is very good info. I will have to think more about what I want out of the car in the end.

WREvo

So comparably to the FP red how much better would you say the BBX is? Also I have seen a couple friends X's make 400hp with FP reds, cosworth cams/springs, full intercooler upgrades, and full exhausts with 800cc or better injectors; my question is how well would your BBX do with these supporting mods?

murlo26

iTrader: (9)

^The bbx and FPred are very very close for spool and power. I don't think you can go wrong with either. Whatever makes you happy

WREvo

Thanks murlo26, I am just trying to do my research and I have heard great things about CBRD, but i am very unfamilar with their turbo's. Any other insight from anybody on this matter would be greatly appreciated as well.

tdubevox

iTrader: (2)

Here's a good comparison for you; however, no cams or springs. As Chad stated above, a bbx with cams made 448. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-cbrd-bbx.html

The 30RB kit is nothing less than awesome. The craftsmanship is def top notch thanks to Brent! I've had the car back for exactly a week and love it! The kit is a bit laggy compared to stock, but not an issue once I figured out the power band... the gains up top are sick! If you're considering this kit you will not be disappointed.

Thanks again, Chad, Mark and Brent... I'll see you guys Nov 6.