3000ways

Also it isn't just about making power, it also has to do with the ease, the cost, and the relability of doing these builds and again the 4G63T has no 4-Cylinder equals. But that doesn't mean I don't respect the K20, I think it is simply an awesome engine, and it makes my 10 best (any size) engine list. Sh*t now I am off topic, I guess my thread is dead now.

andyktlee

iTrader: (8)

Comparing the stock boost capabilities between a N/A motor and a factory high boost motor doesn't really work. There are actually stock block K20s breaking the 600whp on pump gas + meth with a GT35R on stock internals. I was quite shocked when I saw the results and that's when I knew I have no hope of hitting the same #s as my brother on a GT35R with my 4Gsex3. I love both motors and remember, it's not always about the horsepower #s that define technological advancement.

In terms of 50+ psi, max hp, etc. none of those feats are possible on the stock components. You have to build the motor and of course the parts capable of doing that are readily available with the 4G; it's been around for over a decade. It's still a damn good motor and that's why I bought mine.

3000ways

As far as 50+ psi I wasn't talking about stock block, I was just talking about the engine having the ability to withstand such boost levels, I know of few other 4-cylinders that can withstand such levels, built or not.

Also 600whp on pump gas+meth, please provide a link? Because I higly doubt that, the last time I checked the K20a2 stock block power record was 600whp/405wtq and this was on race fuel homie.




Oh yeah might of made a few more ponies, but this is stock block and the tuner didn't think the engine could withstand the stress of more revs. Again this points to my previous post where I talk about it just isn't about making power.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

You dont need to own a honda , you need to know what is going on in these engines. Besides the Honda is not more advanced.

Do you know what a cam is?

also called a bump stick, or a cam shaft?

It is the peice of metal that as it rotates, pushes on the valve stems to open and close the valves to let air and fuel and spent exhaust gases in and out of the combustion chamber.

The cam shaft has duration, lift, and overlap. (This is much more adjustable in a DOHC, which is PRECISELY why your friends single over head cam engine "got left for dead.")

ALL THE V-TEC or MIVEC CAMS DO THAT IS DIFFERENT IS HAVE TWO CAM PROFILES ON THE SAME CAM.

You get to have a good, emission meeting, well behaved profile for low RPM, and a more agressive cam profile for the upper RPM band, where performance dictates the airflow more than emissions.

So If you you take a cam with the "more agressive profile" from the V-TEC or MIVEC cams, and impose it on a "normal" cam shaft, the two engine will make the SAME POWER in the upper RPM band, the "normal" engine will just not idle/meet emissions as well.

same thing in reverse. take the less agressive profile, impose it on a "normal" engine, and it will run just like the V-TEC or MIVEC engine, until the cam in the V-TEC or MIVEC kicks over to the second profile.

Therefore:

If you race someone with the "more agresive profile" imposed on a "normal" engine vs a MIVEC or V-TEC, with all other things the same, the only way you will "Leave him for dead" is if you both start off from the line at 1,000 RPM.

And if you race some one from 1,000 RPM your a retard, and deserve to lose anyway.

BUT, if he's Rev'd his engine up to, say 4,000 RPM, he'll be on the more agresive profile (IE: the same one that your precious MIVEC has) and He'll make the SAME POWER THAT YOU DO.

THUS, V-TEC and MIVEC sound cool, but are not magical peices of fairy dust that get spread over an engine to make it more bad-***.

Sorry to burst anyones bubble, but V-TEC and MIVEC DON"T MAKE HORSEPOWER OR TORQUE in a race over a properly researched "normal" cam.

I'm sorry that your having a difficult time with the english laguage, but I have been saying the SAME THING this entire thread.

... and then besides the fact, V-tec makes aftermarket tuning a car a real pain in the rear, with the sudden jump in airflow to tune around, many people in highly moddified cars just yank it out for simplicity.

3000ways

Although there was a K24 block/and K20 head that made 646whp, very impressive, even though it wasn't a true K20a2. Still impressive. But like I said it just isn't about the power, it is the ease, cost, and relability. I mean hitting 500whp+ on stock internals for a 4G63T isn't really a big deal because so many EVOs and DSMs have done this, but for other 4-cylinder cars it is still a mighty big accomplishment.

3000ways

I just don't understand why so many EVO owners underestimate the abilities of the EVO, this has been the case well before the EVO X. Just confuses the f*ck out me. I think this thinking has limited the ability and tuning potential of the EVO platform. I mean you have tuners like Al, who once was claiming that running over 22PSI on pump gas on a bolt on EVO IX was too high, WTF? Yet he tunes 06 and 07 STIs at 20 to 22PSI????? I mean it just amazes me, how conservative tuners in the United States have been with the 4G63T in the EVO. I applaud people like David Buschur who continue to raise the bar on the 4G63T. I don't even think we've even come close to seeing the total potential of the 4G63T. It wouldn't surpise me to see 700whp on stock block one day, and well over 1,100whp on built/big turbo models.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

Because they don't know what they got.
Most of them only care, the three beep and pull thru 2 gears ,if they lucky 3... and they call it a race.... pathetic.
And for that the Civic is more then enough....
That is why probably good thing to have the new X in higher price.
Natural selection.

3000ways

You are so right. I give up arguing with these people, the 4G63T just sucks. It must suck it is a Mitsubishi product, this must be the reason why we are all driving RSXs and Civics on this board, oh wait a minute this is an EVO forum??? Could have fooled me.

3000ways

And you know what, your damn right, I am a EVO fanboy, #1 fanboy at that. Didn't know it would be a problem being an EVO fanboy on a EVO forum. Hey atleast I don't have much competition for the top EVO fanboy spot, LOL.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

I think if you will dig deep into this problem you will find ,the most evo bashing person is under 23 or so. And probably never been any real race season. Since one or two track day will never justify the difference between the honda and mitshu. But when you step over those, you will find the most mature groupe with real experience. AND i think that is the groupe ,the MMA aiming for the new X. If you left behind the rest it is even better. The new comers will fill those places up with no problem. Personally for me ,the only reason i'm arguing, because i despertly need practice to learn english.

andyktlee

iTrader: (8)

Now you guys just resorted to flaming. Come on guys. I was having a technical discussion about the respective and called on fanboyish claims. Honestly, I understand that 3000 does have the knowledge and respect for well designed motors and I applaud him for that.

Robevo, I never once bashed on the Evo. I love my Evo and love the fact I have MIVEC as well. I've been civil with you throughout this thread yet you hold on to the thought I'm trying to convince people the 4G63T is a huge pile of crap and isn't worth modding; that was never and will never be the case. I'll be pushing the absolute limits of my motor on a stock block with a GT35R and will have rods, pistons, and all the other goodies to rebuild if heaven forbid there is a catastrophic failure.

Why can't we just all get along? I give my dues to well engineered motors, never blindly following the manufacturer. I love Daimler motors, BMW motors, the Mitsu/Chrysler 4G63, Honda B, F, and K motors, etc. The fact that engineers out there are constantly pushing the envelope and creating reciprocating masterpieces puts a genuine smile on my face.

Cheers.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

^ amen

Carloverx

iTrader: (26)

lol "steering" he says.

And according to you, it would be pointless to buy evo's or sti's; everyone should just go buy mustangs.

andyktlee

iTrader: (8)

You didn't get the memo? I need you to include cover sheets on your TPS reports btw.

kobi2002

iTrader: (1)

if I know what a cam is I messed with honda for oh 10 years building motors so i think I know a thing or two. Never had problems tuning vtec motors and was never a pain. And few peopledo the vtec lobe delete, its called a daily driver most guys who run those cams race their cars or does not daily drive them. I love my evo but the facts are their, honda motors are more advanced but i guess thats also my opinion also along with many. the 4g63 is a great motor and I do have respect for them. Far from 23 and I am not a honda fanboy ( it should show cause I drive an evo now) Just the honda motors keep amazing me all the time.
Back to the topic. Don't like the X