Evo (CZ4A) versus STI (GR) mega merge thread
Feb 24, 2010, 04:05 PM
#166
I've owned a WRX, an STi, two DSM's and an Evo 10. Even when i had the STi, Evo's seamed like a different class, however, the ride quality in the 8's and 9's was not nearly as good as the STi. That all changed for the 10.
Reliability, well, the only car that gave me any problems was the WRX at 80k miles the ECU needed flashed. It was mostly stock. STi never had any problems, and it was stage 2. Gas mileage sucked and it looked like the Sailor Moon version of a sports car, but nonetheless a fun driver.
I'd still take the 10 any day, over any of those.
Reliability, well, the only car that gave me any problems was the WRX at 80k miles the ECU needed flashed. It was mostly stock. STi never had any problems, and it was stage 2. Gas mileage sucked and it looked like the Sailor Moon version of a sports car, but nonetheless a fun driver.
I'd still take the 10 any day, over any of those.
I am closing this, but will make a new content thread from 2010 so everyone can have a discussion with posters who will see the replies.
Feb 24, 2010, 04:14 PM
#167
Icebreaker- I had an 02 WRX with a vf30, have tuned a few STIs, they're not my thing.
Reliability: I'd rate this 50:50 Evo vs. STI
Stock components: I'd rate this heavily in the Evo's favor
Upgrade potential: Also heavily in the Evo's favor
Fit & finish: I'd definitely give this one to Subaru
All in all, the Evo is more of the performance car, and the STI is better at utility and comfort.
Reliability: I'd rate this 50:50 Evo vs. STI
Stock components: I'd rate this heavily in the Evo's favor
Upgrade potential: Also heavily in the Evo's favor
Fit & finish: I'd definitely give this one to Subaru
All in all, the Evo is more of the performance car, and the STI is better at utility and comfort.
Feb 24, 2010, 06:02 PM
#168
First of all Mitsubishi is ranked #6 in overall reliability and Subaru #13 according to Consumer Reports which are both above the industry average. Keep in mind that you will never get Civic like reliability on a turbocharged AWD car do to more complex mechanical parts that can fail.
Many 07+ STI's have ringland issues stock or modded. Do a search at NASIOC on 'ringland' and take a look at all the pages of threads. Search for ringland here and you will see a couple and most are in discussions about Subarus lol. Some 08 STI's required transmission replacements due to 2nd gear failure in fact Car & Driver (a good read here; http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...d_test_wrap-up) had to have the transmission and engine replaced on their long term 08 STI test car and I believe Road & Track or Motortrend also had problems with their long term 08 STI's while every long term EVO has been problem free for all mags. Heck I believe a few 08 STI's have had electrical fires with one burning down completely do to a faulty headlight circuit. Subaru has had some quality issues with their 08+ models including the 100+ 09 WRX engines that had to be replaced due to bearing failure.
They both have bad paint and the EVO X has a handful of small issues but really major failures of components hasn't been that widespread. If you plan on staying stock STI and EVO X will both be fairly reliable but if you plan on modding I would stick with the Mistubishi.
Many 07+ STI's have ringland issues stock or modded. Do a search at NASIOC on 'ringland' and take a look at all the pages of threads. Search for ringland here and you will see a couple and most are in discussions about Subarus lol. Some 08 STI's required transmission replacements due to 2nd gear failure in fact Car & Driver (a good read here; http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...d_test_wrap-up) had to have the transmission and engine replaced on their long term 08 STI test car and I believe Road & Track or Motortrend also had problems with their long term 08 STI's while every long term EVO has been problem free for all mags. Heck I believe a few 08 STI's have had electrical fires with one burning down completely do to a faulty headlight circuit. Subaru has had some quality issues with their 08+ models including the 100+ 09 WRX engines that had to be replaced due to bearing failure.
They both have bad paint and the EVO X has a handful of small issues but really major failures of components hasn't been that widespread. If you plan on staying stock STI and EVO X will both be fairly reliable but if you plan on modding I would stick with the Mistubishi.
Of course with racing models and high performance models it's going to be different
Feb 24, 2010, 09:26 PM
#169
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I don't know how are subaru engines going on is USA. But ... In Russia almost every STi with ej257 (including my) have rebuilded engine because of faulty ringlands... And powerful subies have blown headgaskets (including my). That's why I moved to evo.
Feb 25, 2010, 06:19 AM
#170
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Nope that recent ranking you are talking about is for 2010 cars which includes their road testing and predicted reliability which is kind of useless. You have to dig a little deeper to see their ranking of reliability of 2009 models based on problems reported per 100 cars where Subaru is #13.
Feb 25, 2010, 06:42 AM
#171
Do we really need another Mitsubishi vs Subaru thread on here? It basically boils down to personal preference. 2009 was a rough year for Subaru because of the well known engine issues on the WRX (over 100 blown engines). This problem was restricted to a specific build date range however and is no no longer a concern for the WRX. The STI issues on the other hand appear to be caused by the factory tune. There is a delay when the vehicle enters boost causing a temporary lean condition. This started in 2007 and has been maintained due to emissions. A tune solves it. In every thread on Evom regarding Subarus, the old "they don't respond well to mods" argument inevitably comes up. While you can't get 500 WHP out of a stock STI (at least not for long), they can and do make good power with basic bolt-ons and tuning. Again though, it depends on what you want out of the car.
Feb 25, 2010, 07:02 AM
#173
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From my own experiences with my X and checking out and test driving a few new subaru models at the dealer I have a few opinions. Firstly, the Subaru is much better inside, quality and comfort the X doesn't hold much to it. My friend and also a co-worker are STi fanboys and their stuff is undeniably nicer inside. However, the Evo is a much richer driving experience. From raw power and superior handling, to not sounding like a Chinook helicopter (hate the boxer motor w/exhaust) its a better performance machine. As far as mods go I have little to comment since none of ours are heavily modded up, but it appears the Evo has more potential on stock components. And the biggest opinion, Subaru STi -1 for looking like a super 2004 ford focus hatchback. All and all they're great cars anyway you slice it, but growing up I always wanted an Evo, and thats where I sit.
Feb 25, 2010, 07:07 AM
#174
They're not forged, that's for sure. I think their hypereutic (?) or something like that. I think the tune is the main problem though since the issue only appeared 2007 on when Subaru was nice enough to make a huge ****ing lean spot in the tune.
Feb 25, 2010, 08:18 AM
#176
The main difference in upgradability is that the Evo is a lot less expensive to make fast.
Manifold separation and terminating at the bottom for a single turbo four cylinder is 75% of the EJ's problem, which gives us miles of pipe for slow spool times, and then they get saddled with tiny hotsides. Add a legitimate FMIC in there, and lag gets much worse. Then there is the dismal rev potential of the EJ257 to factor in. To me, its just a bad design to make power, and the car is better suited to autocrossing and fun car duty, unless you just have a lot of money to burn.
Manifold separation and terminating at the bottom for a single turbo four cylinder is 75% of the EJ's problem, which gives us miles of pipe for slow spool times, and then they get saddled with tiny hotsides. Add a legitimate FMIC in there, and lag gets much worse. Then there is the dismal rev potential of the EJ257 to factor in. To me, its just a bad design to make power, and the car is better suited to autocrossing and fun car duty, unless you just have a lot of money to burn.
Feb 25, 2010, 08:51 AM
#177
It depends heavily on what you want out of the car. If you only want an additional 50-100 HP over stock, the two cars are virtually identical in cost (surprisingly AMS noticed that their STI cost less to get these kinds of gains). Once you start pushing for 200+ HP over stock, the Evo gets ahead and stays there until you get to the insane power levels where both cars will require substantial modifications (rebuilt engines, significant head work, cooling modifications, etc). One advantage that the Subaru has is torque though which makes is a fun daily driver and good autocross car. For a track car though, it suffers from oil starvation problems that kill engines. I remember reading on NASIOC that there are some teams that have gone through 5 or more engines while competing in the Redline Time Attack series and they weren't heavily modified. If I was buying a car for track use, hands down I'd buy an Evo. For daily use, it would be a far tougher decision.
Feb 25, 2010, 08:56 AM
#179
It depends heavily on what you want out of the car. If you only want an additional 50-100 HP over stock, the two cars are virtually identical in cost (surprisingly AMS noticed that their STI cost less to get these kinds of gains). Once you start pushing for 200+ HP over stock, the Evo gets ahead and stays there until you get to the insane power levels where both cars will require substantial modifications (rebuilt engines, significant head work, cooling modifications, etc). One advantage that the Subaru has is torque though which makes is a fun daily driver and good autocross car. For a track car though, it suffers from oil starvation problems that kill engines. I remember reading on NASIOC that there are some teams that have gone through 5 or more engines while competing in the Redline Time Attack series and they weren't heavily modified. If I was buying a car for track use, hands down I'd buy an Evo. For daily use, it would be a far tougher decision.
Feb 25, 2010, 10:00 AM
#180
I'd like to see proof of similar cost for 100whp gains. Assuming both cars baseline at 230whp-250whp on a dyno, I believe you can get an X to gain 100whp with only exhaust bits and tuning. I don't think you can get an STI to gain 100whp with only exhaust and tuning, but would love to be proven wrong.
Yes you can. If I can find the thread from AMS, I'll post it.
Edit: Here we go, some Subaru threads from AMS.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/au...turbo-kit.html
Subaru STI with a GT30R kit.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/au...uge-gains.html
07 STI with flash, boost controller, TBE and intake making 320 WHP and 357 ft/lbs of torque on their dyno.
Straight from AMS' mouth
I still smile when I look at the jump from just some basic mods. This is roughly the HP our stage II package would do to an EVO IX for more then twice the price and about 30 less Ft/lbs of torque. STI FTW!
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1935171
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1938331
Buschur doing their thing with a Subaru.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=buschur
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=buschur
This isn't meant to be a "Subaru is better" post, it is designed merely to show that Subarus are capable of gaining decent amounts of power like the Evo and the choice is ultimately based on personal preference and what you're using the car for/your goals.
Last edited by ambystom01; Feb 25, 2010 at 10:12 AM.