murlo26

iTrader: (9)

Hmm....the whole reason the STI's/WRX's were having problems was because the factory tune was too aggressive/lean, so it would surprise me to see that you can make more power stock out of them. Not saying its not possible, just interesting.

Noize

iTrader: (24)

I have no question that a tune can make more power and be more reliable than factory mapping, but on that tiny stock turbo gaining Evo levels, I'm skeptical.

Back in the vf39 sedan vs. Evo IX years, the results on stock turbo cars was a slaughter in Mitsu's favor.

Amby is typically pretty car saavy, but seems to lose a little objectivity when arguing in favor of Subarus.

murlo26

iTrader: (9)

Like I said I don't doubt it, but Subaru had to back power down and richen the car up to make it safer. I know a factory tune isn't always best but +80whp is crazy from a tune like the Evo's are getting. Who knows, maybe it is possible, the new STI's are still ugly on the outside.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

The tune wasn't too aggressive, it was/is just a ****ty tune all-around. It goes lean at the worst possible part, when boost is just coming on. This means you're running positive manifold pressure but an AF ratio that's close to stoich which means lots of heat and boom in the long run.
If you want a personal example, I daily a 2007 WRX with an STI VF43, TMIC, 3" TBE and a EBCS and I gained well over 100 ft-lbs of torque and a bit less HP over what my car came with stock. Even on the stock turbo, I noticed huge gains with a tune and that turbo was the size of my *******.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

The thing with Subarus is they don't show huge HP gains, relatively speaking, but they show huge torque gains, it's just the nature of the beast really.
A lot of people lose objectivity when discussing their own car Noize .

murlo26

iTrader: (9)

But you had to upgrade a lot of stuff to gain all that from the tune. We are talking stock car, just pure tuning.

Interesting that they could suck so bad at tuning, lol, you would think after this long subaru would know how to tune a turbo'd 2.5.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

I upgraded to STI hardware and an exhaust. Even with just a tune, the gains are substantial especially in terms of torque.
Subaru can tune but emissions kill them. The boxer motor isn't good in that regard so they had to do some last minute changes to appease the regulations.

GPTourer

But where in those threads do they say dollar for dollar the STi is cheaper to mod then the X? The only car they talk about comparing it to in the second thread is the IX.

heavyD

LOL isn't that the truth. I'm actually amazed he accepted all the WRX engine failures as fact. If you spend enough time at NASIOC you will see so many posts about engine failures that I have to believe that Subarus go through more engines per amount of cars sold than any other manufacturer.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Is the X significantly cheaper than the IX?

migs647

iTrader: (19)

To mod the first 100whp, yes.

Noize

iTrader: (24)

That doesn't even remotely correlate to the topic at hand. Careful Amby, you're proving my point. You technically have a turbo and intercooler upgrade. We were comparing a completely stock 08+ STI and Evo X to the same cars with exhaust and tuning (not your WRX using its stock turbo baseline to compare). The Evo will gain measurably more with these mods than the STI. Proven.

Well, that’s nice, but I said 100whp where you quoted, but you only posted a 68whp peak gain. That car also falls off a cliff at high RPM due to the stock snail being out of steam. I also find it humorous that not even one of the cars in that explosion of links you posted is a 2008+ STI.

I’m not even entertaining the upgraded turbo links you provided, because you inferred lightly modded cars here:

You embellished a bit, don’t you think? Please tell me you have more evidence than that one link, which wasn't even a 100whp peak gain to start with.

I will agree the torque on a tuned STI is nice, but its onset is at low enough RPM that ability to utilize it on upshift is not there. The beauty of the stock turbo in a tuned Evo is that its powerband is much better suited for acceleration. It doesn't puke-n-die at high RPM like a tuned STI.

Ironic you'd say that since most of your debate fodder is the furious regurgitation of links from other people's experiences to support your claims. I've owned both. You don't have the tech backing you to win this particular debate, but I know you can't resist trying, so my Pleiades excuse-o-meter smackdown is ready and waiting for you.

GPTourer

According to X owners yes.

If you make a claim like that you should be able to back it up. But not cut and paste results for a totally different platform and engine and expect it to fly.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

I'm out of this thread, it's ready to turn sour and the last thing I need is more mod flack. It's pretty clear to me that there's no point and this will soon or already has turned into a gangbang. I tried to be nice but it's pointless, you've taken what I said and apparently thrown it aside, along with the opinions or experiences of well known tuners. Your position on the matter is very evident and it'd be pointless to try here as I have in other threads. There's no place for a Subaru owner in a Mitsubishi vs Subaru thread. Back to OT I go.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

Huh? According to all other evo owners too. That's what almost all results have shown. Who's disagreeing here?