E39 M5 or Evo X decision
Mar 23, 2008, 06:46 AM
#61
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The 335i is a nice car though, it's not off of the radar scope.... if only it came standard with a limited slip rear diff.
Too bad BMW reserves such items for M cars only... too bad they don't make a M "Turbo". That would be cool. (Actually I think they are going to add a turbo M car to the lineup soon.
Too bad BMW reserves such items for M cars only... too bad they don't make a M "Turbo". That would be cool. (Actually I think they are going to add a turbo M car to the lineup soon.BTW, MMelmann - that sentiment does NOT apply to you and other licensed MotorCycle RACERS in that you guys are way way ahead of the game in understanding traction and balance.
Dan Law
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Last edited by DER MotorSports; Mar 23, 2008 at 06:59 AM.
Mar 23, 2008, 09:17 AM
#62
I understand your dilemma, unfortunately I have not found a solution except for owning more than one car that satisfies different cravings 
The best mix I have had so far I think was a european spec M Roadster, Evo VI RS-2 and an (older) modded Renault Alpine V6 Turbo. The M had the quality, the instant response, the fun convertible factor - but honestly the handling wasn't the greatest and for the size it was heavy, most days that didn't matter. The Evo was just addictive and fun the way it accelerated and handled - it wasn't the best long distance autobahn tool and clearly wasn't built as solidly as the bimmer. The Alpine was just different and mid-engined, but also had lots of faults.
The advice that has been given on the thread is very good; first, test drive, test drive, test drive. Reading specs and reviews I thought I'd like a v12 bimmer when I ended up buying the Evo; I hated that Bimmer. Having been brought up adoring exotics and "reputable brands" I didn't think I'd like the Evo and ended up telling the sales guy 5 mins into the test drive that I had to have it.
Next, consider depreciation and maintenance as well if you're on a budget. The Alpine cost me the most in repairs, the Bimmer the parts cost the most but it held its value pretty well, The Evo VI used up tires and depreciated a lot (this was in Europe, my VIII in the US held its value well). The specific examples here won't translate to a used M5 and Evo X in the US, but what I learned is that with older cars you most likely will be repairing stuff - and the more expensive/exotic the car was new the more it will cost. With new cars you'll be spending your money on depreciation...
Andi
The best mix I have had so far I think was a european spec M Roadster, Evo VI RS-2 and an (older) modded Renault Alpine V6 Turbo. The M had the quality, the instant response, the fun convertible factor - but honestly the handling wasn't the greatest and for the size it was heavy, most days that didn't matter. The Evo was just addictive and fun the way it accelerated and handled - it wasn't the best long distance autobahn tool and clearly wasn't built as solidly as the bimmer. The Alpine was just different and mid-engined, but also had lots of faults.
The advice that has been given on the thread is very good; first, test drive, test drive, test drive. Reading specs and reviews I thought I'd like a v12 bimmer when I ended up buying the Evo; I hated that Bimmer. Having been brought up adoring exotics and "reputable brands" I didn't think I'd like the Evo and ended up telling the sales guy 5 mins into the test drive that I had to have it.
Next, consider depreciation and maintenance as well if you're on a budget. The Alpine cost me the most in repairs, the Bimmer the parts cost the most but it held its value pretty well, The Evo VI used up tires and depreciated a lot (this was in Europe, my VIII in the US held its value well). The specific examples here won't translate to a used M5 and Evo X in the US, but what I learned is that with older cars you most likely will be repairing stuff - and the more expensive/exotic the car was new the more it will cost. With new cars you'll be spending your money on depreciation...
Andi
Mar 24, 2008, 01:00 AM
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Hmmm... reading this thread is kinda making me re-evaluate my situation.
I'm also in a similar situation.
Except, I already have a E46 M3 and was considering replacing it with another car.
I've had the M3 for almost 3 years. Technically, it even still has it's warranty.
Like someone already stated, modding BMWs get very pricey.
I've spent about $30K on mods alone for the M3.
It's true that power mods are difficult to do for BMWs (apparently not so with the new turbo bimmers) w/o spending a pretty penny.
Most of the car's miles are from weekend driving and a few autocross here and there (it's the only motorsport available in Oahu since there's no race track or venue on this island).
I love my M3 and I take good care of it and it's even been on the BMW CCA's Roundel magazine last month.
On the other side, I love the Lancer Evolution. I've loved it ever since the CN9A was out. I was even very very close to buying myself a CP9A Mirage and trying to do an Evolution conversion.
I would always root for Mitsubishi to beat Subaru back in the good ol' days of WRC.
Ironically, though... my first AWD car (last year) turned out to be a GC8 Impreza. haha. Good cars, but I always highly regarded the Evolution as better.
The Impreza did get me to see the beauty of what an AWD drivetrain could do though.
I'm married now and I would sometimes even use the M3 for business (since it looks a lot classier than the beat up Impreza).
However, the M3 is not that classy since my catback titanium exhaust is loud (but, damn does it sound great!).
I love my Brembos on the M3 too. I can stare at them all day and are, by FAR, the best thing on the car.
But, I think an Evolution would be a lot better for my autocross needs.
Being on an island, especially w/o a race track... quick seems to be more desired than fast... which the Evolution exactly is.
I just bought my wife an '08 Mini Cooper S.
Maybe I can roll to business meets with that?
Even though I'm looking for more of a performance car, is it possible that I can be turned off by the creature comforts???
Then again, my M3 did have no rear seats, bucket shells, and a roll bar.
I'm also in a similar situation.
Except, I already have a E46 M3 and was considering replacing it with another car.
I've had the M3 for almost 3 years. Technically, it even still has it's warranty.
Like someone already stated, modding BMWs get very pricey.
I've spent about $30K on mods alone for the M3.
It's true that power mods are difficult to do for BMWs (apparently not so with the new turbo bimmers) w/o spending a pretty penny.
Most of the car's miles are from weekend driving and a few autocross here and there (it's the only motorsport available in Oahu since there's no race track or venue on this island).
I love my M3 and I take good care of it and it's even been on the BMW CCA's Roundel magazine last month.
On the other side, I love the Lancer Evolution. I've loved it ever since the CN9A was out. I was even very very close to buying myself a CP9A Mirage and trying to do an Evolution conversion.
I would always root for Mitsubishi to beat Subaru back in the good ol' days of WRC.
Ironically, though... my first AWD car (last year) turned out to be a GC8 Impreza. haha. Good cars, but I always highly regarded the Evolution as better.
The Impreza did get me to see the beauty of what an AWD drivetrain could do though.
I'm married now and I would sometimes even use the M3 for business (since it looks a lot classier than the beat up Impreza).
However, the M3 is not that classy since my catback titanium exhaust is loud (but, damn does it sound great!).
I love my Brembos on the M3 too. I can stare at them all day and are, by FAR, the best thing on the car.
But, I think an Evolution would be a lot better for my autocross needs.
Being on an island, especially w/o a race track... quick seems to be more desired than fast... which the Evolution exactly is.
I just bought my wife an '08 Mini Cooper S.
Maybe I can roll to business meets with that?
Even though I'm looking for more of a performance car, is it possible that I can be turned off by the creature comforts???
Then again, my M3 did have no rear seats, bucket shells, and a roll bar.
Mar 24, 2008, 01:03 AM
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http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...=100-100-00008
And still cheaper than a E92 M3.
Mar 24, 2008, 02:06 AM
#65
as a former owner of a 01 e39 dinan m5 ( I had 18 points), I say go with the m5 if you can afford everything, a typical exhaust goes for 2 grand, most mods start at 2 grand for the m5.
so if the money is there, and your looking for a nice high speed cruiser get the m5.
so if the money is there, and your looking for a nice high speed cruiser get the m5.
Last edited by DRAGHICI; Mar 24, 2008 at 02:10 AM.
Mar 24, 2008, 08:30 AM
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Turner Motorsports has a LSD for sale for the 335i.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...=100-100-00008
And still cheaper than a E92 M3.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...=100-100-00008
And still cheaper than a E92 M3.
Dan Law
DER MotorSports
Mar 24, 2008, 06:10 PM
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BMW M5, like many already mentioned, get the Evo if you want a new car, cheaper parts/maintenance.
get the M5, if you want a timeless classic machine. But maintenance is going to be much more expensive then the Evo.
But if money allows, I would go with the M5, get an aftermarket warranty and call it a day.
get the M5, if you want a timeless classic machine. But maintenance is going to be much more expensive then the Evo.
But if money allows, I would go with the M5, get an aftermarket warranty and call it a day.
Mar 27, 2008, 05:54 PM
#68
Regarding cars, a wise man once told me "If you can't afford it new then you probably should think twice about buying it used."
FWIW, one of the evo-ny guys has an Evo XIII that he tracks and an M5 for street use. He brought the M5 to an Evo meet the other day and no one even noticed it. It wasn't until he opened the hood to refill the windshield washer fluid and suddenly everyone was staring at the "M" label on the engine cover! This area has so many 5 series that I didn't even give it a second glance when I first saw it parked between the Evos.
Tough decision, especially when you factor in that the X will depreciate the minute you buy it and the M5 will keep a larger percentage of its value.
FWIW, one of the evo-ny guys has an Evo XIII that he tracks and an M5 for street use. He brought the M5 to an Evo meet the other day and no one even noticed it. It wasn't until he opened the hood to refill the windshield washer fluid and suddenly everyone was staring at the "M" label on the engine cover! This area has so many 5 series that I didn't even give it a second glance when I first saw it parked between the Evos.
Tough decision, especially when you factor in that the X will depreciate the minute you buy it and the M5 will keep a larger percentage of its value.
Aug 20, 2008, 12:27 PM
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Sorry for the late response... I'm still stuck flying my old jalopy (CH-46E) all over Afghanistan in support of the 1/6 Marines with the 24th MEU. The only vehicles I have to drive are Toyota Hilux trucks (old Tacoma's) and H1 Hummers. I would kill to drive a proper sports car or bike right now.
I'm still leaning slightly towards the M5 right now simply because of the extra space and luxury it provides over the Evo X. My son will be born soon (like in the next few hours... that's why I'm up on the internet) and I'm pretty sure that myself and everybody that rides with me will appreciate the extra space that the E39 M5 has over the compact Evo X and the tiny *** trunk.
I keep waiting to see what Shiv and other tuners will offer up in regards to finished product ECU tuning. He's tuned my last two cars and I was very satisfied with the results... especially when my car's were pitted against other modified Evo's and WRX's whose owners threw more mods and money at. But on the other hand, it looks like my modifying expense budget is about to go down in flames. A new son is worth it. (After all... the boy needs a shifter kart and race school fund that needs to be started)
It will all come down to a few more driving impressions. I haven't had the priviledge of experiencing an E39 M5 first hand yet... only a 540i with a sport package.
I'm still leaning slightly towards the M5 right now simply because of the extra space and luxury it provides over the Evo X. My son will be born soon (like in the next few hours... that's why I'm up on the internet) and I'm pretty sure that myself and everybody that rides with me will appreciate the extra space that the E39 M5 has over the compact Evo X and the tiny *** trunk.
I keep waiting to see what Shiv and other tuners will offer up in regards to finished product ECU tuning. He's tuned my last two cars and I was very satisfied with the results... especially when my car's were pitted against other modified Evo's and WRX's whose owners threw more mods and money at. But on the other hand, it looks like my modifying expense budget is about to go down in flames. A new son is worth it. (After all... the boy needs a shifter kart and race school fund that needs to be started)
It will all come down to a few more driving impressions. I haven't had the priviledge of experiencing an E39 M5 first hand yet... only a 540i with a sport package.
Aug 20, 2008, 02:56 PM
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Interesting thread. I'm in almost the same position as the OP. First son on the way in a matter of weeks (or maybe days!, you know how that goes), and I'm trying to figure out what 4-door, 4-seat car to buy that is still a ton of fun.
I currently own an E36 M3, which is the track car, and an 04 S2000, which is the daily driver.
So, since I love the BMWs, I spent a lot of time looking at, and almost buying, an E39 M5. I drove quite a few (driving them is a must!), and learned how to spot "a good one". (But, remember, there is absolutely NO ALTERNATIVE TO GETTING A PPI FROM A REPUTABLE BMW SHOP!, especially with a car like the E39 M5.) I almost pulled the trigger on a pristine 03 with 17K miles, one owner, essentially a brand new car. But, still out of warranty, and no matter how many miles, an E39 M5 is EXTREMELY expensive to maintain out of warranty, as has been said before in this thread.
So, I then turned my sights to an E46 M3. 2 doors, but I figured I could still deal with that--at least the back seats are large for a coupe. Almost bought one of those--a 2005 still under warranty, low miles, but at the last moment my wife said "are you really sure you want to buy an older German car that's almost out of warranty"?
It made me think. See, I originally bought my E36 M3 for $14K, but I've since spent another $32K (yes, for a total of $46K) on my M3. Do I really want to go through that again?
I have now decided the answer is no. I turned my attention to the Evo X and the new STI. I wanted to like the Subaru, since I used to own a WRX and liked it, but one drive in the Evo made me forget completely about the STI. Unbelievable car. Not only a load of fun, but 4 doors, 4 seats, seems to be a good daily driver, and a warranty if something breaks.
So, I'm now in the market for an Evo X MR. As soon as my son is born, my wife says that I can go buy the car. (She's a smart woman--she wants to make sure I don't do anything impulsive) The plan is to get rid of the S2000, which will be hard, keep the M3 as the track car, daily drive the Evo... and, then, when the M3 wears out, turn the Evo into my track car.
Good luck on your decision.
--michael
I currently own an E36 M3, which is the track car, and an 04 S2000, which is the daily driver.
So, since I love the BMWs, I spent a lot of time looking at, and almost buying, an E39 M5. I drove quite a few (driving them is a must!), and learned how to spot "a good one". (But, remember, there is absolutely NO ALTERNATIVE TO GETTING A PPI FROM A REPUTABLE BMW SHOP!, especially with a car like the E39 M5.) I almost pulled the trigger on a pristine 03 with 17K miles, one owner, essentially a brand new car. But, still out of warranty, and no matter how many miles, an E39 M5 is EXTREMELY expensive to maintain out of warranty, as has been said before in this thread.
So, I then turned my sights to an E46 M3. 2 doors, but I figured I could still deal with that--at least the back seats are large for a coupe. Almost bought one of those--a 2005 still under warranty, low miles, but at the last moment my wife said "are you really sure you want to buy an older German car that's almost out of warranty"?
It made me think. See, I originally bought my E36 M3 for $14K, but I've since spent another $32K (yes, for a total of $46K) on my M3. Do I really want to go through that again?
I have now decided the answer is no. I turned my attention to the Evo X and the new STI. I wanted to like the Subaru, since I used to own a WRX and liked it, but one drive in the Evo made me forget completely about the STI. Unbelievable car. Not only a load of fun, but 4 doors, 4 seats, seems to be a good daily driver, and a warranty if something breaks.
So, I'm now in the market for an Evo X MR. As soon as my son is born, my wife says that I can go buy the car. (She's a smart woman--she wants to make sure I don't do anything impulsive) The plan is to get rid of the S2000, which will be hard, keep the M3 as the track car, daily drive the Evo... and, then, when the M3 wears out, turn the Evo into my track car.
Good luck on your decision.
--michael
Aug 20, 2008, 03:11 PM
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Michael, thanks for the input... but you're pulling me back onto the fence. 
My old M Coupe was a Certified BMW and they didn't do a good job of certifying it. Turned out that the coupe had been in a bad accident and the rear subframe damage was rediculous. I found that out after I was adding KONI suspension/ Ireland Engineering subframe bushings/ RSM's, etc. When I pulled up the upolstry, I was horrified with what I found. I took my baby back and the dealership actually gave me my money back after a years worth of driving the M Coupe.
I then bought the Evo IX and added Vishnu's V400 package. Daddy likey... alot.
Speaking of daddyige... I just found out through Skype from my wife that I'll be a Dad in 16 hours. WOO HOO! (C-Section... he's over 10 lbs
)
My old M Coupe was a Certified BMW and they didn't do a good job of certifying it. Turned out that the coupe had been in a bad accident and the rear subframe damage was rediculous. I found that out after I was adding KONI suspension/ Ireland Engineering subframe bushings/ RSM's, etc. When I pulled up the upolstry, I was horrified with what I found. I took my baby back and the dealership actually gave me my money back after a years worth of driving the M Coupe.I then bought the Evo IX and added Vishnu's V400 package. Daddy likey... alot.
Speaking of daddyige... I just found out through Skype from my wife that I'll be a Dad in 16 hours. WOO HOO! (C-Section... he's over 10 lbs
)
Aug 21, 2008, 02:14 PM
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Sounds like my exact predicament back in 2003. I've always wanted an E39 M5 but the price of one back then made my decision to get the Evo8 an easy one. Fast forward 3 years in September of 2006 and found an Immaculate 2002 Jet Black w/ 11K miles and never regretted it. I truly enjoy driving it. Hell, I almost considered selling it to get the EvoX but came back to my senses. Plus my wife did not want to see it go since she enjoyed driving it as much as I did. She's a keeper!!!(both the wife and the M5).
Sounds like you were really leaning towards the M5. The key is finding a clean E39. Good Luck!!!
Sounds like you were really leaning towards the M5. The key is finding a clean E39. Good Luck!!!
Aug 21, 2008, 02:26 PM
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Sep 25, 2008, 03:02 PM
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Did you end up buying the X or the M5?
I bought an Evo IX MR at the beginning of the year. It was lightly modded with turbo back exhaust, boost controller, flash, coilover suspension. It was a lot of fun to drive on the street and on the track. However, I only read about the MR tranny issues after buying the car, and was then a bit hesitant to put additional track miles on the Evo. That led me to reevaluate the car's merits.
I loved the performance and handling, but hated the street race baiting effect it had on kids. The Evo also made me feel old for some strange reason. I think it was seeing the youthfulness of fellow Evo drivers.
I made the decision to move on from the Evo into a more refined performance car that I would drive exclusively on the street. After six months of ownership I traded the Evo for an E55 AMG with the V8 Kompressor engine. So far I'm really enjoying the grunty performance (469hp, 516 lb-ft) and lovely V8 soundtrack, but missing the nimble handling. I also appreciate the stealthiness of the Benz after the unwanted attention of the Evo.
I may pick up a track biased car to partner the E55 whenever I can afford it.
I bought an Evo IX MR at the beginning of the year. It was lightly modded with turbo back exhaust, boost controller, flash, coilover suspension. It was a lot of fun to drive on the street and on the track. However, I only read about the MR tranny issues after buying the car, and was then a bit hesitant to put additional track miles on the Evo. That led me to reevaluate the car's merits.
I loved the performance and handling, but hated the street race baiting effect it had on kids. The Evo also made me feel old for some strange reason. I think it was seeing the youthfulness of fellow Evo drivers.
I made the decision to move on from the Evo into a more refined performance car that I would drive exclusively on the street. After six months of ownership I traded the Evo for an E55 AMG with the V8 Kompressor engine. So far I'm really enjoying the grunty performance (469hp, 516 lb-ft) and lovely V8 soundtrack, but missing the nimble handling. I also appreciate the stealthiness of the Benz after the unwanted attention of the Evo.
I may pick up a track biased car to partner the E55 whenever I can afford it.