evo x GSR for a stick shift noobie, bad idea?
Mar 18, 2008, 12:59 PM
#31
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Mar 18, 2008, 07:44 PM
#32
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Yay someone else from the Bronx. I'm also looking to get my X in late May for a graduation present, can't wait.
Mar 18, 2008, 08:17 PM
#33
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I personally don't think its a very good idea. There's more to driving stick than just shifting gears and being able to move off w/o stalling. Proper driving also involves knowing what rev-matching is, and doing it every time you down shift. Learn to move off quickly, as well as shift smoothly, w/o slipping the clutch.
If your current car is an automatic, get a friend w/ a stick to teach you. If your friend doesn't know what rev-matching is, make friends with someone who actually knows how to drive their car. Alternatively, get a rental, loaner, or even buy your own straight-shift car to familiarize yourself (you can get a running car w/ a 5spd for less than it costs to rent one for a week, and it wouldn't be a bad idea). Keep your current car until you're comfortable moving off (including hill starts), shifting smoothly w/o clutch slip whether fast-shifting or granny-shifting, and you've made a habit of rev-matching every downshift.
Sure, you don't have to do all this, but since you're getting an Evo X I would assume you're interested in some high-performance driving, which I wouldn't recommend trying until you can control your transmission w/o even thinking about it. You'll have more fun off the bat, and put less wear and tear on your virgin Evo X. You'll be able to pick up on advanced driving techniques much quicker, and you'll be heel-toeing in no time. If you've got a decently running car now, there's no rush to get the Evo, so hold off until you know how to drive it properly. If you don't have a car now and the Evo is gonna be your first one, though, please, PLEASE, reconsider...
If your current car is an automatic, get a friend w/ a stick to teach you. If your friend doesn't know what rev-matching is, make friends with someone who actually knows how to drive their car. Alternatively, get a rental, loaner, or even buy your own straight-shift car to familiarize yourself (you can get a running car w/ a 5spd for less than it costs to rent one for a week, and it wouldn't be a bad idea). Keep your current car until you're comfortable moving off (including hill starts), shifting smoothly w/o clutch slip whether fast-shifting or granny-shifting, and you've made a habit of rev-matching every downshift.
Sure, you don't have to do all this, but since you're getting an Evo X I would assume you're interested in some high-performance driving, which I wouldn't recommend trying until you can control your transmission w/o even thinking about it. You'll have more fun off the bat, and put less wear and tear on your virgin Evo X. You'll be able to pick up on advanced driving techniques much quicker, and you'll be heel-toeing in no time. If you've got a decently running car now, there's no rush to get the Evo, so hold off until you know how to drive it properly. If you don't have a car now and the Evo is gonna be your first one, though, please, PLEASE, reconsider...
Mar 18, 2008, 10:47 PM
#35
Thuan,
The point is you are telling someone they are ready when they can sucessfully slip the clutch on a hill to hold the car in place. I think the idea behind your advice is sound, you are talking about getting the 'feel' for the various clutch points (friction point, engagement point, sync point, etc.) that to most manual drivers, is second nature and never even a thought. I agree, but the idea that one should get that feel in the manner you described is the part I disagree with.
In short, slipping the clutch to hold you on a hill is just not good. Obviously, some slipping has to occur in 1st and reverse, it is near unavoidable, but the less the better (as far as the clutch is concerned).
You should slip the clutch as little as possible if you are genuinely concerned about wear, and never hold the veh in place on hills. Common sense tells us that when the the clutch is slipping, it is slipping 'against' the flywheel (friction point). This causes wear, and as we know some wear is unavoidable, however using the clutch more carefully can extend the lifetime significantly. For example, using the brake on hillls instead of your plan.
If someone believes they are ready because they have mastered how to ruin their clutch on a 500$ car (so they can now move on to doing the same thing on their new 40K car) they are making a poor judgement call.
To the original poster, purchasing a low priced vehicle to learn manual, sure, good idea. Learning how to slip the clutch on a hill so that you can transfer that to the EVO, bad idea. I am speaking plain sensible facts, nothing more, nothing less. I would never say you should format your hard drive with a magnet, for example, sure it works but it ruins the drive for later use. Ditto here, you are obviously concerned about ruining a clutch on a new expensive vehicle as you have no experience, I am merely indicating to you that this advice about slipping the clutch on a hill is pure folly as far as how you should treat the vehicle if in fact those concerns are yours. It 'will' cause excessive wear on the clutch, end of story. That said, you are risking a lot making such a nice ride your first manual. If you do, chances are high you will cause some excessive wear at first, but if you take it easy and smooth until you get that 'muscle memory' going then it's like riding a bike.
I'll sum it with this;
An ex coach of mine used to say
"Practice does NOT make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect"
So get that 'feel' and 'muscle memory' doing it as close to perfect as possible. If you don't you may find yourself with a learned behavior that contributes to wear.
Does that make sense?
Flame away if you must, but I suspect most are realistic enough to realize all I am doing is assiting someone who has been steered somewhat wrongly.
All that said, there was never any intended disrespect Thuan. I hope none was taken.
- edited to produce the least possible incoming flame damage while still making the point
The point is you are telling someone they are ready when they can sucessfully slip the clutch on a hill to hold the car in place. I think the idea behind your advice is sound, you are talking about getting the 'feel' for the various clutch points (friction point, engagement point, sync point, etc.) that to most manual drivers, is second nature and never even a thought. I agree, but the idea that one should get that feel in the manner you described is the part I disagree with.
In short, slipping the clutch to hold you on a hill is just not good. Obviously, some slipping has to occur in 1st and reverse, it is near unavoidable, but the less the better (as far as the clutch is concerned).
You should slip the clutch as little as possible if you are genuinely concerned about wear, and never hold the veh in place on hills. Common sense tells us that when the the clutch is slipping, it is slipping 'against' the flywheel (friction point). This causes wear, and as we know some wear is unavoidable, however using the clutch more carefully can extend the lifetime significantly. For example, using the brake on hillls instead of your plan.
If someone believes they are ready because they have mastered how to ruin their clutch on a 500$ car (so they can now move on to doing the same thing on their new 40K car) they are making a poor judgement call.
To the original poster, purchasing a low priced vehicle to learn manual, sure, good idea. Learning how to slip the clutch on a hill so that you can transfer that to the EVO, bad idea. I am speaking plain sensible facts, nothing more, nothing less. I would never say you should format your hard drive with a magnet, for example, sure it works but it ruins the drive for later use. Ditto here, you are obviously concerned about ruining a clutch on a new expensive vehicle as you have no experience, I am merely indicating to you that this advice about slipping the clutch on a hill is pure folly as far as how you should treat the vehicle if in fact those concerns are yours. It 'will' cause excessive wear on the clutch, end of story. That said, you are risking a lot making such a nice ride your first manual. If you do, chances are high you will cause some excessive wear at first, but if you take it easy and smooth until you get that 'muscle memory' going then it's like riding a bike.
I'll sum it with this;
An ex coach of mine used to say
"Practice does NOT make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect"
So get that 'feel' and 'muscle memory' doing it as close to perfect as possible. If you don't you may find yourself with a learned behavior that contributes to wear.
Does that make sense?
Flame away if you must, but I suspect most are realistic enough to realize all I am doing is assiting someone who has been steered somewhat wrongly.
All that said, there was never any intended disrespect Thuan. I hope none was taken.
- edited to produce the least possible incoming flame damage while still making the point
I guess my main focus here to trying to make sure the OP has master the the basics of using a manual and can control his clutch footing before he hop into an new EVO-X. Trying to steer him away from using an new EVO-X as a learning tool as many people on here is trying to tell him to do, It might be find with other makers, but not with Mitsu on any EVO, If it break they just say it your fault.
Unlike Honda,Toyota, Mitsu does not warranty Clutches Period.This is from pass experience many EVO-8 owner found out back in 2003 the hardway.Clutchs was failing left and right before 10k miles.Im sure you can do a little search on the EVO-8-9 section. Now EVO's is known to have weak OEM Clutch.Under normal driving with an -X, With the Setting on Snow, you 1st 5-10 min of driving, you can sometime smell the clucth brun at times.
So what im trying to really say is please do not use the EVO-X as a learning tool,It's very
expensive to replace the Clutch on an EVO, or most AWD cars.
Mar 20, 2008, 08:35 AM
#38
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What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Mar 20, 2008, 09:26 AM
#39
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What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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