Evo X Mr Turned Down Because Of A/t
Apr 2, 2008, 11:08 AM
#91
You still haven't driven a X with SST. Relating your experience with one product in a different car and trying to apply it to your car, is not the same as actually having used that product in your car. If you don't agree with that, and it sounds like you don't - we are at an impasse.
I'll continue to withhold judgment on a car I haven't driven. It's not that I'm even defending it. I'm simply saying don't knock the MR until you have driven it. It **might** just be alright.
Last edited by boozeup&riot; Apr 2, 2008 at 11:10 AM.
Apr 2, 2008, 11:16 AM
#92
I love blind generalizations and labeling like you did to me calling me an idiot for voicing my opinion on auto-manuals. Explain to me how a car shifting for you equates to being as-involving or more-involving in the overall driving experience?
I've driven cars like the auto-paddle shift MX-5's at autocross days. Its a fun car, but it was not as fun as driving a manual. Those that argue that F1 and WRC use sequential gearboxes...GOOD FOR THEM. Thats professional racing in professional racecars where milliseconds equates to millions of dollars. Last time I checked, the Evo MR is not a racecar. Just because it shifts faster does not mean that it is better (more fun) than a manual. Get off your horse that those that would prefer to be traditionalists are "ignorant" because they don't see the light of a car shifting for you. I want to be in COMPLETE control of the car at all times. COMPLETE means that I want to shift the freakin' thing. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?
I've driven cars like the auto-paddle shift MX-5's at autocross days. Its a fun car, but it was not as fun as driving a manual. Those that argue that F1 and WRC use sequential gearboxes...GOOD FOR THEM. Thats professional racing in professional racecars where milliseconds equates to millions of dollars. Last time I checked, the Evo MR is not a racecar. Just because it shifts faster does not mean that it is better (more fun) than a manual. Get off your horse that those that would prefer to be traditionalists are "ignorant" because they don't see the light of a car shifting for you. I want to be in COMPLETE control of the car at all times. COMPLETE means that I want to shift the freakin' thing. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?
I also want to add I enjoy my MT IX. Driving an MT is great fun, and there is a certain interaction with the car that I can understand people not wanting to sacrifice. I just think there's more than one way to skin a cat in this case. I'm gonna bail on this thread as I feel like we are going in circles and my intent is not to offend. I can certainly understand people wanting their driving experience a specific way. I just wish people would stick to just saying that, as opposed to dressing it up with half facts like, "its not as involved, you lack complete control, etc," as those statements are completely relative. **You** may not feel its as involved or as much in control, and thats fine, its just not a fact that holds true to all drivers (professional or otherwise) and their experiences. Thanks for the mostly mature conversation though guys. Until next time.
Last edited by boozeup&riot; Apr 2, 2008 at 11:36 AM.
Apr 2, 2008, 11:36 AM
#93
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It's about WHO turned down idea of an MR because they couldn't get a manual.
My track car is a manual, and I prefer to keep my shifting skills in good practice by driving a manual every day. Wtf is wrong with that folks? It's my preference. Dual clutch is a great advance, and I'm getting it in my new M3
However if I'm gonna buy another Evo, I want a manual, just like I have now, because I like it that way. Duhhh. 
Apr 2, 2008, 11:39 AM
#94
Sure, good idea... but that's not what this thread was originally about.
It's about WHO turned down idea of an MR because they couldn't get a manual.
My track car is a manual, and I prefer to keep my shifting skills in good practice by driving a manual every day. Wtf is wrong with that folks? It's my preference. Dual clutch is a great advance, and I'm getting it in my new M3 However if I'm gonna buy another Evo, I want a manual, just like I have now, because I like it that way. Duhhh.
It's about WHO turned down idea of an MR because they couldn't get a manual.
My track car is a manual, and I prefer to keep my shifting skills in good practice by driving a manual every day. Wtf is wrong with that folks? It's my preference. Dual clutch is a great advance, and I'm getting it in my new M3
However if I'm gonna buy another Evo, I want a manual, just like I have now, because I like it that way. Duhhh. 
Apr 2, 2008, 11:45 AM
#95
Evolved Member
The bottom line is that if you don't have a clutch pedal, there is no way for the car to be as involving to drive. A clutch physically connects one to the car and requires 100% involvement. Involvement is what makes driving a car fun. Fun is exactly why I bought an Evo. So, that is why I would not buy an MR. It is inevitable that it is ultimately not going to be as fun to drive as the GSR.
Fedja
Apr 2, 2008, 11:50 AM
#96
So, by that logic are you suggesting that race car drivers do not have complete control of their cars?[/QUOTE]
They have control, but no they do not have the kind of control that I have over my car with a MT. The thing is that with a racecar that is traveling at such constant high rates of speed - there are too many factors to have to worry about. They were invented so the driver could focus 100% on the driveline and thus, the fastest lap time possible - not for the driver enjoyment. I suppose that you could argue that having lightning fast upshifts with no lag-time is fun as well, but I don't consider it fun because I'm not the one doing it. I think it would be cool for a couple of hours, but I wouldnt want to do it all the time.
Which is exactly my point. The more interaction, the more enjoyment/satisfaction I get. If I can't get a manual, it would be hard for me to justify buying the car. The GTR is the only car I would consider just because it is simply amazing and something i've always revered. However, if there was a MT option, I would choose it in a heartbeat over the Auto.
They have control, but no they do not have the kind of control that I have over my car with a MT. The thing is that with a racecar that is traveling at such constant high rates of speed - there are too many factors to have to worry about. They were invented so the driver could focus 100% on the driveline and thus, the fastest lap time possible - not for the driver enjoyment. I suppose that you could argue that having lightning fast upshifts with no lag-time is fun as well, but I don't consider it fun because I'm not the one doing it. I think it would be cool for a couple of hours, but I wouldnt want to do it all the time.
Which is exactly my point. The more interaction, the more enjoyment/satisfaction I get. If I can't get a manual, it would be hard for me to justify buying the car. The GTR is the only car I would consider just because it is simply amazing and something i've always revered. However, if there was a MT option, I would choose it in a heartbeat over the Auto.
Apr 2, 2008, 11:56 AM
#97
So, I guess, according to your statement all of those suckers who autoX or do anything else that doesn't involve much of shifting are missing soooo much fun while doing it since there is barely any involvement since they stay in the 2nd gear all the time. Whenever I see someone doing an autoX, I will tell them that there is no fun in doing it since your clutch pedal is not used while racing. Great find!!!
Fedja
Fedja
Apr 2, 2008, 12:03 PM
#98
It's a matter of preference. I can see both sides. But, as others have said, just wait until you drive it. Or at least go drive an Audi/VW product which is essentially the same transmission. An SMG is not the same type of transmission and can't shift nearly as fast as a DSG/SST type of tranny.
Also, for all the guys complaining that the SST is just a computer that does all the work for you. Let me ask you how much you enjoy and love the SAWC system in the Evo X. Seems to be the shining star of the car...right? Well, it's also a computer controlled system that determines on its own (without any input from the driver) on where to distribute torque. Does that make it bad/wrong? Heck no. It's a wonderfully designed technological advance. If you're so hardcore about not wanting a computer to do the driving for you, you could always ask Mitsu to remove SAWC and replace it with an old school AWD/4WD where you had to engage the system yourself with a small shifter looking knob on the floor. That way you can have total control over driving the car
Also, for all the guys complaining that the SST is just a computer that does all the work for you. Let me ask you how much you enjoy and love the SAWC system in the Evo X. Seems to be the shining star of the car...right? Well, it's also a computer controlled system that determines on its own (without any input from the driver) on where to distribute torque. Does that make it bad/wrong? Heck no. It's a wonderfully designed technological advance. If you're so hardcore about not wanting a computer to do the driving for you, you could always ask Mitsu to remove SAWC and replace it with an old school AWD/4WD where you had to engage the system yourself with a small shifter looking knob on the floor. That way you can have total control over driving the car
Last edited by atombomb33; Apr 2, 2008 at 01:04 PM.
Apr 2, 2008, 12:38 PM
#100
I love a manual on track, and an automatic when driving long distances. However, the reviews of the MR have been so positive in relation to the setup, that it may be hard to turn down. I already have an X though, so my decision is already made.
Apr 2, 2008, 01:02 PM
#101
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Personal Preference
Here is what is funny about these threads....no one can give in a little. Everyone gets all stubborn that their choice is the best. And guess what. It is.
The real differences are minor, but the subjective differences are what it is all about. And subjective = opinion.
Most of this thread is nonfactual opinion.....and that is a fact.
Bottom line: Pick the one you enjoy most and who cares what the other guy thinks.
The real differences are minor, but the subjective differences are what it is all about. And subjective = opinion.
Most of this thread is nonfactual opinion.....and that is a fact.
Bottom line: Pick the one you enjoy most and who cares what the other guy thinks.
Apr 2, 2008, 01:21 PM
#102
What is there to debate about? A thread was named "Evo X Mr Turned Down Because Of A/t" and it seems like more than 80% of the people prefer manual. manual is more classic and gives a feeling like you are actually driving the car. It is also more challenging...which is a good thing...because like I said it keeps sissy girls driving the automatic. I think a lot of people have already stated also that they don't even care if it does improve performance(though we all know it is the driver on the track and not the tranny) . Don't know what you are talking about with the swearing. So I throw a swear word in once in a while out of habit...oh noez
Apr 2, 2008, 01:40 PM
#104
Tc-SST is the ultimate transmission, I couldn't agree more with what you said! Manual transmissions will one day be forgotten, I swear this whole manual vs. Tc-SST thing is worse than Dylan going electric. If your buying the manual for looks, thats a sad excuse, the Tc-SST won't hamper your ego when you pull much more consistent times at the track!
It comes down to excepting change, people not being able to except the fact an auto matted machine can out shift their ego inflated 5sp. I'm not trying to open any cans for worms as I'm buying the GSR myself but would much rather own the more expensive Tc-SST MR. To each their own, just my thoughts on the whole situation.
It comes down to excepting change, people not being able to except the fact an auto matted machine can out shift their ego inflated 5sp. I'm not trying to open any cans for worms as I'm buying the GSR myself but would much rather own the more expensive Tc-SST MR. To each their own, just my thoughts on the whole situation.
Apr 2, 2008, 02:08 PM
#105
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I can promise that M/T are going any where for a long time. I am sure that most of the Evo owner rather have the feel of a M/T. TC-SST is awesome but the fact is that it still drive like an A/T and i rather have a Manual. But there are people out there that want A/T that why Mitsubishi made it but M/T arnt going any where
Yes the SST can drive like an A/T if you want it to.
BUT if you have it set to manual mode, the car will not shift until you shift it.
That is a big difference in comparison to a blanket statement that the car shifts like an A/T. It's been mentioned more than once by the same person in this thread and yet it's still being over-looked.
My take on the SST behavior based on the release document that
put out is that you could bounce the car off the rev limiter in say 2nd gear until you shift (by using the paddle or the stick) to go to third. Which is what I can do today with my M/T, only difference is now with the SST the clutch actuation is done via an ecu signal.