Evo X vs. modern BMW cars (All X General threads merged)
Jan 3, 2008, 05:12 AM
#166
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Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X : 1:06:46
Subaru Impreza WRX STI : 1:05:95
On best motoring videos the STI has been beating the new Evos so far.
Jan 3, 2008, 05:17 AM
#167
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Jan 3, 2008, 05:20 AM
#168
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i would call the Old Evos interior functional not boyracer, only because pure nothing flashy or expensive and also cheap. as a rally car should be... i would call the 135 low class since you want some classy from BMW...
The X , is kinda avarrage for JDM car. So you get what you expect .But defenietly NOT RALLY interior ,so little off line.
Ferrari HMMM the Ferrari is like the Pope for the Church, so we dont judge it : its a FERRARI...
The X , is kinda avarrage for JDM car. So you get what you expect .But defenietly NOT RALLY interior ,so little off line.
Ferrari HMMM the Ferrari is like the Pope for the Church, so we dont judge it : its a FERRARI...
Old evos interior is not functional, I hated my speedo/tech meter, you can't see them during the day and at night it's so dim. That was the most horrible cluster I've ever come across.
Jan 3, 2008, 07:08 AM
#169
dude what kind of facts do you have? the ones from car mags that have the 0-60 times anywhere b/w 4.9 and 5.4 seconds, the ones that give subjective opinion about fit and finish, or about the looks of the X?
Are those the same facts you use earlier to say that 135i 0-60 of 5.1 seconds on bmw site is not a fact, then you went on to MAKE A FACT by saying that bmw is underrating the number? How do you know? Are you the fact maker?
The facts and #s are going to come once there is actually a car associated with them. As of today there is not one X owner on US soil or is there one 135i owner, and until such time, we can guess, dream, hope.
At least i am optimistic about the new car, where as it seems that you mostly see the glass as almost empty.
Oh Yeah and I Love my IX.
Are those the same facts you use earlier to say that 135i 0-60 of 5.1 seconds on bmw site is not a fact, then you went on to MAKE A FACT by saying that bmw is underrating the number? How do you know? Are you the fact maker?
The facts and #s are going to come once there is actually a car associated with them. As of today there is not one X owner on US soil or is there one 135i owner, and until such time, we can guess, dream, hope.
At least i am optimistic about the new car, where as it seems that you mostly see the glass as almost empty.
Oh Yeah and I Love my IX.
All test data show so far for the Evo X has been on either lighter JDM models or "unhealthy" USDM X models...with the exception of the latest motor trend review of the STI and X. The Evo ran to 60 in 5.2 and through the quarter in 13.8@99mph. They said the engine felt strong and everything was in working order...it was a "healthy" car this time around. I don't know what else you want me pull my facts from. Look it up yourself.
The BMW 135i has not been officially tested by a magazine, but I don't think it is just a coincidence that the manufacturer est. 0-60 time has dropped from 5.3sec. to 5.1 sec. Every magazine that made predictions could not agree with that estimate as the car has the same motor, but weights almost 200lbs less (3373 vs. 3571). Its physics dude. Mags have got the 335i to do 60 in 4.8 seconds and run the quarter in 13.4@105mph - BMW still rates it at 5.3secs. to 60. With that curb weight, the motor would have to be underrated in the power dept - just like the Evo IX was underrated at 289bhp and still putting down 250+whp. The X was not really underrated as it dynoed 245whp in the latest Motor Trend article, which with an assumed drivetrain loss of 20% puts it at 294bhp - not far off from the listed bhp numbers. The quarter mile time is pretty accurate too.
Based on all the test data I listed above, I'd say that I'm not exactly off base with my assumptions that the 135i will destroy a X from straight line or roll. Its not about the glass being half full or half empty, its the fact that weight, power, and prior test data are hard to argue against. Look at it with whatever subjective optimisim that you want, but don't try to tell me that i'm just a hater and pulling this crap out of my ***.
Jan 3, 2008, 09:36 AM
#170
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Its not easy to change anyones minds about any car they like .... they will always think its going to be be the best. What I would like to ask you all here is "HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE OWNED BOTH AN EVO AND A NEWER BMW" ?
I am willing to bet that of those Evo X fan boys in here that none of you can say you have. I my self on the other hand had a fully modded Evo IX:
My old car:
That I tracked:
and absolutely LOVED my old IX. However there came a point in my life (Im 28) that the evo was not practical choice.
I now own a BMW 335i .... I can tell you the owner experience is unlike ANYTHING mitsu can give. You can purchase any BMW (except M Cars or X5/X3s) through their European Delivery Program for less then MSRP and you can build it to your spec (no need for options you dont want)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...y/Default.aspx
On top of it you get to drive your new car in GERMANY where it was built and on the Autobahn where it was designed to run. Can Mitsu offer that? Maintenance for 4 full years including breaks comes with any new BMW ... Can Mitsu offer that? You get a loaner car while your car is in service ... Can Mitsu offer that? You get treated like gold when ever you go to the dealer ... last time I took my Evo in I was treated like a criminal and had to fight with them to get a faulty part replaced! Fit an finish is amazing on the BMW unlike the Evo .... The car feels sold and stable at high speeds and low speeds something Evo IX didnt even come close to feeling. Some of you here say the interior of the 1 series is boring ... it may seem that way and in all honesty I felt the same way when I was shopping a new car ... but I have to tell you the more you own the car the more you appreciate the interior. Placement of every button is well thought out. The sport seats are AMAZING and actually better then the Evos Recaros. I can honestly go on and on about my 335i but Im sure most of you dont even care. The fact is the BMW is a better PRIMARY car. If your debating on buying the 1 series or evo X as a 2nd weekend car that you plan on tracking a lot ... then the Evo X might be the right choice for you (depends on how much you track) ..... if your shopping the two cars as a daily driver/ weekend warrior the BMW will hands down be the better choice. Dont take my word for it ask any of the BMW / Ex-Evo owners on E90post.com
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71395
Im sure all of you will just come back with the Evo has AWD and blah blah blah ... The truth of the matter is 95% of you will never see a track day in your life ... and those of you who do will only go once or twice and still never drive the car to its full potential. For those guys I have been at track days when a FWD EG civic hatch was beating up on unexperienced evo owners. So at the end of the day bench racing is bench racing ... unless your really a race car driver. Also to squash the AWD debate ... JIC Magic's S15 usually has the best overall time at Redline Time attacks (beating out AMS's Evo) ... so just because it has AWD doesn't make it the fastest around the track.
Oh and for all those of you who think im now a BMW fan boy ... I am hardly a fan boy ... I will be buying another Evo IX in the future as a dedicated track car. Just for real life the BMW is a better car.
I am willing to bet that of those Evo X fan boys in here that none of you can say you have. I my self on the other hand had a fully modded Evo IX:
My old car:
That I tracked:
and absolutely LOVED my old IX. However there came a point in my life (Im 28) that the evo was not practical choice.
I now own a BMW 335i .... I can tell you the owner experience is unlike ANYTHING mitsu can give. You can purchase any BMW (except M Cars or X5/X3s) through their European Delivery Program for less then MSRP and you can build it to your spec (no need for options you dont want)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...y/Default.aspx
On top of it you get to drive your new car in GERMANY where it was built and on the Autobahn where it was designed to run. Can Mitsu offer that? Maintenance for 4 full years including breaks comes with any new BMW ... Can Mitsu offer that? You get a loaner car while your car is in service ... Can Mitsu offer that? You get treated like gold when ever you go to the dealer ... last time I took my Evo in I was treated like a criminal and had to fight with them to get a faulty part replaced! Fit an finish is amazing on the BMW unlike the Evo .... The car feels sold and stable at high speeds and low speeds something Evo IX didnt even come close to feeling. Some of you here say the interior of the 1 series is boring ... it may seem that way and in all honesty I felt the same way when I was shopping a new car ... but I have to tell you the more you own the car the more you appreciate the interior. Placement of every button is well thought out. The sport seats are AMAZING and actually better then the Evos Recaros. I can honestly go on and on about my 335i but Im sure most of you dont even care. The fact is the BMW is a better PRIMARY car. If your debating on buying the 1 series or evo X as a 2nd weekend car that you plan on tracking a lot ... then the Evo X might be the right choice for you (depends on how much you track) ..... if your shopping the two cars as a daily driver/ weekend warrior the BMW will hands down be the better choice. Dont take my word for it ask any of the BMW / Ex-Evo owners on E90post.com
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71395
Im sure all of you will just come back with the Evo has AWD and blah blah blah ... The truth of the matter is 95% of you will never see a track day in your life ... and those of you who do will only go once or twice and still never drive the car to its full potential. For those guys I have been at track days when a FWD EG civic hatch was beating up on unexperienced evo owners. So at the end of the day bench racing is bench racing ... unless your really a race car driver. Also to squash the AWD debate ... JIC Magic's S15 usually has the best overall time at Redline Time attacks (beating out AMS's Evo) ... so just because it has AWD doesn't make it the fastest around the track.
Oh and for all those of you who think im now a BMW fan boy ... I am hardly a fan boy ... I will be buying another Evo IX in the future as a dedicated track car. Just for real life the BMW is a better car.
Last edited by M3this; Jan 3, 2008 at 10:23 AM.
Jan 3, 2008, 09:36 AM
#171
I get my facts from the best sources I can: car magazines. I also get the data from owner's dyno vids/timeslips etc. Also, I get them from the manufacturer's website if there is no magazine or owner test data. What else are you going to make decisions around?
All test data show so far for the Evo X has been on either lighter JDM models or "unhealthy" USDM X models...with the exception of the latest motor trend review of the STI and X. The Evo ran to 60 in 5.2 and through the quarter in 13.8@99mph. They said the engine felt strong and everything was in working order...it was a "healthy" car this time around. I don't know what else you want me pull my facts from. Look it up yourself.
The BMW 135i has not been officially tested by a magazine, but I don't think it is just a coincidence that the manufacturer est. 0-60 time has dropped from 5.3sec. to 5.1 sec. Every magazine that made predictions could not agree with that estimate as the car has the same motor, but weights almost 200lbs less (3373 vs. 3571). Its physics dude. Mags have got the 335i to do 60 in 4.8 seconds and run the quarter in 13.4@105mph - BMW still rates it at 5.3secs. to 60. With that curb weight, the motor would have to be underrated in the power dept - just like the Evo IX was underrated at 289bhp and still putting down 250+whp. The X was not really underrated as it dynoed 245whp in the latest Motor Trend article, which with an assumed drivetrain loss of 20% puts it at 294bhp - not far off from the listed bhp numbers. The quarter mile time is pretty accurate too.
Based on all the test data I listed above, I'd say that I'm not exactly off base with my assumptions that the 135i will destroy a X from straight line or roll. Its not about the glass being half full or half empty, its the fact that weight, power, and prior test data are hard to argue against. Look at it with whatever subjective optimisim that you want, but don't try to tell me that i'm just a hater and pulling this crap out of my ***.
All test data show so far for the Evo X has been on either lighter JDM models or "unhealthy" USDM X models...with the exception of the latest motor trend review of the STI and X. The Evo ran to 60 in 5.2 and through the quarter in 13.8@99mph. They said the engine felt strong and everything was in working order...it was a "healthy" car this time around. I don't know what else you want me pull my facts from. Look it up yourself.
The BMW 135i has not been officially tested by a magazine, but I don't think it is just a coincidence that the manufacturer est. 0-60 time has dropped from 5.3sec. to 5.1 sec. Every magazine that made predictions could not agree with that estimate as the car has the same motor, but weights almost 200lbs less (3373 vs. 3571). Its physics dude. Mags have got the 335i to do 60 in 4.8 seconds and run the quarter in 13.4@105mph - BMW still rates it at 5.3secs. to 60. With that curb weight, the motor would have to be underrated in the power dept - just like the Evo IX was underrated at 289bhp and still putting down 250+whp. The X was not really underrated as it dynoed 245whp in the latest Motor Trend article, which with an assumed drivetrain loss of 20% puts it at 294bhp - not far off from the listed bhp numbers. The quarter mile time is pretty accurate too.
Based on all the test data I listed above, I'd say that I'm not exactly off base with my assumptions that the 135i will destroy a X from straight line or roll. Its not about the glass being half full or half empty, its the fact that weight, power, and prior test data are hard to argue against. Look at it with whatever subjective optimisim that you want, but don't try to tell me that i'm just a hater and pulling this crap out of my ***.
Jan 3, 2008, 09:43 AM
#172
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Dont you know the 135i has a more restrictive exhaust than the 335i? Also, dont you know that in 07 the power is down on 335i because BMW redid the ecu programming so they arent making a lot more power than they are rated at? The 135i in stock form isnt going to be some godsend from the automotive gods. People have already complained of the handling on it. I havent seen a single bad review of the X.
Jan 3, 2008, 09:52 AM
#173
I thought I saw a vishu graph comparing it on e90post.com... maybe not. I am also aware that a new tune fixes the problem, but we are comparing stock cars here. I like the 135i, it just something about the exterior styling of it that leaves me just blah. Maybe once I start seeing them with exterior mods I will change my mind. I am looking to purchase a new car here and it is on my list.
Jan 3, 2008, 09:59 AM
#174
Which explains why it is rated at 306bhp vs. 300bhp for the 335i, right?
Really? Proof would be nice. Especially some numbers that show that 335i isnt making any more power than it was rated at.
If you had read some previous posts, I already stated that the biggest handling issue on the 135i is the understeering. This is due to the fact that the rear wheels are 8.5in and the fronts are 7.5in with narrow 215width rubber. Get equal width rubber and this will not be nearly as bad of an issue. Its got full torque at 1400rpm, so powerslides shouldnt be an issue when the front has a bit more grip. Not to mention a rear-biased weight distribution - pretty sweet on front-engine/rear-drive car.
If you had read some previous posts, I already stated that the biggest handling issue on the 135i is the understeering. This is due to the fact that the rear wheels are 8.5in and the fronts are 7.5in with narrow 215width rubber. Get equal width rubber and this will not be nearly as bad of an issue. Its got full torque at 1400rpm, so powerslides shouldnt be an issue when the front has a bit more grip. Not to mention a rear-biased weight distribution - pretty sweet on front-engine/rear-drive car.
Jan 3, 2008, 10:19 AM
#175
I can really see why BMW's have such a following, because they are a great compromise between performance, luxury, and overall value. I wanted an uncompromising sports car that gave me the most humanly possible performance for my money (30,000). Which is why I have a IX. But, I don't think the X is a good representation of what the Evo was supposed to be...uncompromising. Its all-out performance has now been compromised and that is why the 135i is looking that much more appealing for the price. If i'm going to get a semi-performance-luxo car...in the 35 grand range, the 135i much higher on my list.
You made some great points M3this
. Good to see a true enthusiast that knows what he's talking about.
Jan 3, 2008, 10:22 AM
#176
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Jan 3, 2008, 10:32 AM
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good post, thank you,
i would only point out that once that warranty goes on the BMW, it will be 2wice as much to fix things on it as it will be on the Mitsu. Same thing with mods, 2wice as much, even if you want to put a tbe and reflash your 335, you are looking at 2600-2700USD from Vishnu, OOOOUUCH so you might want to keep it stock,
i would only point out that once that warranty goes on the BMW, it will be 2wice as much to fix things on it as it will be on the Mitsu. Same thing with mods, 2wice as much, even if you want to put a tbe and reflash your 335, you are looking at 2600-2700USD from Vishnu, OOOOUUCH so you might want to keep it stock,
Its not easy to change anyones minds about any car they like .... they will always think its going to be be the best. What I would like to ask you all here is "HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE OWNED BOTH AN EVO AND A NEWER BMW" ?
I am willing to bet that of those Evo X fan boys in here that none of you can say you have. I my self on the other hand had a fully modded Evo IX:
My old car:
That I tracked:
and absolutely LOVED my old IX. However there came a point in my life (Im 28) that the evo was not practical choice.
I now own a BMW 335i .... I can tell you the owner experience is unlike ANYTHING mitsu can give. You can purchase any BMW (except M Cars or X5/X3s) through their European Delivery Program for less then MSRP. On top of it you get to drive your new car in GERMANY where it was built and on the Autobahn where it was designed to run. Can Mitsu offer that? Maintenance for 4 full years including breaks comes with any new BMW ... Can Mitsu offer that? You get a loaner car while your car is in service ... Can Mitsu offer that? You get treated like gold when every you go to the dealer ... last time I took my Evo in I was treated like a criminal and had to fight with them to get a faulty part replaced! Fit an finish is amazing on the BMW unlike the Evo .... The car feels sold and stable at high speeds and low speeds something Evo IX didnt even come close to feeling. Some of you here say the interior of the 1 series is boring ... it may seem that way and in all honesty I felt the same way when I was shopping a new car ... but I have to tell you the more you own the car the more you appreciate the interior. Placement of every button is well thought out. The sport seats are AMAZING and actually better then the Evos Recaros. I can honestly go on and on about my 335i but Im sure most of you dont even care. The fact is the BMW is a better PRIMARY car. If your debating on buying the 1 series or evo X as a 2nd weekend car that you plan on tracking a lot ... then the Evo X might be the right choice for you (depends on how much you track) ..... if your shopping the two cars as a daily driver/ weekend warrior the BMW will hands down be the better choice. Dont take my word for it ask any of the BMW / Ex-Evo owners on E90post.com
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71395
Im sure all of you will just come back with the Evo has AWD and blah blah blah ... The truth of the matter is 95% of you will never see a track day in your life ... and those of you who do will only go once or twice and still never drive the car to its full potential. For those guys I have been at track days when a FWD EG civic hatch was beating up on unexperienced evo owners. So at the end of the day bench racing is bench racing ... unless your really a race car driver. Also to squash the AWD debate ... JIC Magic's S15 usually has the best overall time at Redline Time attacks (beating out AMS's Evo) ... so just because it has AWD doesn't make it the fastest around the track.
Oh and for all those of you who think im now a BMW fan boy ... I am hardly a fan boy ... I will be buying another Evo IX in the future as a dedicated track car. Just for real life the BMW is a better car.
I am willing to bet that of those Evo X fan boys in here that none of you can say you have. I my self on the other hand had a fully modded Evo IX:
My old car:
That I tracked:
and absolutely LOVED my old IX. However there came a point in my life (Im 28) that the evo was not practical choice.
I now own a BMW 335i .... I can tell you the owner experience is unlike ANYTHING mitsu can give. You can purchase any BMW (except M Cars or X5/X3s) through their European Delivery Program for less then MSRP. On top of it you get to drive your new car in GERMANY where it was built and on the Autobahn where it was designed to run. Can Mitsu offer that? Maintenance for 4 full years including breaks comes with any new BMW ... Can Mitsu offer that? You get a loaner car while your car is in service ... Can Mitsu offer that? You get treated like gold when every you go to the dealer ... last time I took my Evo in I was treated like a criminal and had to fight with them to get a faulty part replaced! Fit an finish is amazing on the BMW unlike the Evo .... The car feels sold and stable at high speeds and low speeds something Evo IX didnt even come close to feeling. Some of you here say the interior of the 1 series is boring ... it may seem that way and in all honesty I felt the same way when I was shopping a new car ... but I have to tell you the more you own the car the more you appreciate the interior. Placement of every button is well thought out. The sport seats are AMAZING and actually better then the Evos Recaros. I can honestly go on and on about my 335i but Im sure most of you dont even care. The fact is the BMW is a better PRIMARY car. If your debating on buying the 1 series or evo X as a 2nd weekend car that you plan on tracking a lot ... then the Evo X might be the right choice for you (depends on how much you track) ..... if your shopping the two cars as a daily driver/ weekend warrior the BMW will hands down be the better choice. Dont take my word for it ask any of the BMW / Ex-Evo owners on E90post.com
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71395
Im sure all of you will just come back with the Evo has AWD and blah blah blah ... The truth of the matter is 95% of you will never see a track day in your life ... and those of you who do will only go once or twice and still never drive the car to its full potential. For those guys I have been at track days when a FWD EG civic hatch was beating up on unexperienced evo owners. So at the end of the day bench racing is bench racing ... unless your really a race car driver. Also to squash the AWD debate ... JIC Magic's S15 usually has the best overall time at Redline Time attacks (beating out AMS's Evo) ... so just because it has AWD doesn't make it the fastest around the track.
Oh and for all those of you who think im now a BMW fan boy ... I am hardly a fan boy ... I will be buying another Evo IX in the future as a dedicated track car. Just for real life the BMW is a better car.
Jan 3, 2008, 10:41 AM
#179
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good post, thank you,
i would only point out that once that warranty goes on the BMW, it will be 2wice as much to fix things on it as it will be on the Mitsu. Same thing with mods, 2wice as much, even if you want to put a tbe and reflash your 335, you are looking at 2600-2700USD from Vishnu, OOOOUUCH so you might want to keep it stock,
i would only point out that once that warranty goes on the BMW, it will be 2wice as much to fix things on it as it will be on the Mitsu. Same thing with mods, 2wice as much, even if you want to put a tbe and reflash your 335, you are looking at 2600-2700USD from Vishnu, OOOOUUCH so you might want to keep it stock,
Jan 3, 2008, 10:54 AM
#180
Yea repairs will be more after the 4 year warranty, however I personally never keep a car longer then 4 years. Also I agree the parts for the BMW are a little on the pricy side, however there are more and more Tuners stepping in the BMW market due to he 335i and 135i (actually a lot of the evo tuners are making thier way over to E90post.com) and as each tuner comes over prices have been dropping. Im sure a year from now you will be able to get parts much cheaper then currently ... esp for the 135i since its a less expensive car then the 335i