Evo X vs. modern BMW cars (All X General threads merged)
#61
Well I'm guessing your referring to the 135i and not the 335i which you mention in your post but to correct you, if you check every option on the 135i spec sheet your cost is close to $48,000, not $40,000. And even using your numbers how do you get that a $40,000 BMW is only 1 to 2 grand more then a $34,000 GSR base model?
This is what I would choose:
My 135i Coupe 3.0-liter, turbocharged inline 6-cylinder engine
Rear-wheel drive
Base MSRP $34,900
Jet Black $0
Black Boston Leather $1,450 (Note: Leatherette is standard)
Glacier Aluminum Trim $0
Sport Package $1000
- Sport Seats
- M sport steering wheel
- Black matte finish window framing
Destination and Handling $775
Total MSRP as built $38,125
This is total insanity:
Base MSRP $34,900
Black Sapphire Metallic $475
Black Boston Leather $0
Glacier Silver Aluminum Trim $0
Cold Weather Package $600
Premium Package $3,300
Sport Package $1,000
Active Steering $1,400
Comfort Access system $500
Navigation system $2,100
HD radio $350
iPod and USB adapter $400
Premium hi-fi system $875
Satellite radio $595
Park Distance Control (rear only) $350
18" Double Spoke 182 (4 wheels without tires) $1,654
All Weather Rubber Floor Mats $81
BMW Base Support System $175
BMW Roof Box 460 $950
Rear Bumper Bike Rack $575
Touring Cycle and Mountain Bike Holder $110
Destination & Handling: $775
Total MSRP as Built $51,165
But tell me, why in the hell would you possibly need any more than what I selected. I wouldnt want any more than that in an Evo. Everything selected in the left column is what I would get and its about on par with a Evo X GSR with SSW package. Oh, and can you show me the exact MSRP of the X GSR, because I havent seen it yet. Thanks.
P.s. Whoever said the BMW is a overpriced Jetta is an idiot. I've driven both BMWs and VWs, apparently you havent. To call a BMW a Jetta is just ridiculous.
#63
I did not lie about anything and you misquoted /misinterpreted what I said. One thing that I never said is that the BMW is ahead of the game...its a different game entirely. Its rear drive vs awd - coupe vs sedan. The Evos handling will be much better, but if you eliminate the understeering characteristics of the 135i (which you should be able to do with a simple wheel/tire change and anti-roll bars) it will be an absolute blast to drive - they say it is pretty fun and fast in stock form.
All of the reviews that you have read of the 135i's accleration numbers are "manufacturers estimates." Not true performance data. The 335i is rated at 5.1 0-60 from the factory. It actually does it in 4.8-4.9 and traps low 13's. The 135i has the same motor (rated 6hp higher) and weights more than a hundred pounds less...you do the math. Its gonna fly. BMW is underrating it so that it doesnt steal the thunder from the 335i.
I priced the 335i out to 37-38k with sport package, flat black paint, leather upholstery. If you check every option - none of which are necessary for a sports car - it comes to a little over 40 grand. So, you figure it is maybe 1 or 2 grand more than the GSR base and about the same price if you get the GSR with the SSW package (which I would get). Its a sweet deal and a better one if you ask me.
All of the reviews that you have read of the 135i's accleration numbers are "manufacturers estimates." Not true performance data. The 335i is rated at 5.1 0-60 from the factory. It actually does it in 4.8-4.9 and traps low 13's. The 135i has the same motor (rated 6hp higher) and weights more than a hundred pounds less...you do the math. Its gonna fly. BMW is underrating it so that it doesnt steal the thunder from the 335i.
I priced the 335i out to 37-38k with sport package, flat black paint, leather upholstery. If you check every option - none of which are necessary for a sports car - it comes to a little over 40 grand. So, you figure it is maybe 1 or 2 grand more than the GSR base and about the same price if you get the GSR with the SSW package (which I would get). Its a sweet deal and a better one if you ask me.
- Both 135i and 335i are rated 306PS, which is equal to 300bhp or so in SAE corrected form. They have the same output
- 335i is aerodynamically superior and only weighs 40kg more (which is about 88 lbs), I have quoted the figures in my earlier posts, but it was something like 0.29 for the 335i and 0.32 for 135i.
335i is a superior car to 135i save the 88lbs weight penalty and additional price of about 7 grand.
Also, you have to talk real life cost, forget the maintenance nonsense, even at initial purchase price, try to find a dealer that sells optionless BMW. Finding one that sells below MSRP is pretty challenging as well. In real life, generally you'll see price tag of high 30's for 135i and mid 40's for 335i, almost always equipped with at least one 'package' option.
EVO follows Honda method and sells their cars in 'trim levels', and any additional stuff are considered 'accesories', rarely having options, some example being SSL for evo and navi for Honda, which means MSRP usually reflects the actual price. Also generally you can get them a little to well below MSRP.
#65
..also dont get me wrong the BMW is fun to drive...in competition the NA 6's are the best...never once had a problem...the street car is fun as well, you drive them with your heel and you'll know what I mean..the rear end loves to buck out...with the electronics, it takes the spirit out unless you have any "M" with M mode, it is amazing..
#66
Actually, i'll correct you, check everything in the option box (almost everything) and it is much higher:
This is what I would choose:
My 135i Coupe 3.0-liter, turbocharged inline 6-cylinder engine
Rear-wheel drive
Base MSRP $34,900
Jet Black $0
Black Boston Leather $1,450 (Note: Leatherette is standard)
Glacier Aluminum Trim $0
Sport Package $1000
- Sport Seats
- M sport steering wheel
- Black matte finish window framing
Destination and Handling $775
Total MSRP as built $38,125
This is total insanity:
Base MSRP $34,900
Black Sapphire Metallic $475
Black Boston Leather $0
Glacier Silver Aluminum Trim $0
Cold Weather Package $600
Premium Package $3,300
Sport Package $1,000
Active Steering $1,400
Comfort Access system $500
Navigation system $2,100
HD radio $350
iPod and USB adapter $400
Premium hi-fi system $875
Satellite radio $595
Park Distance Control (rear only) $350
18" Double Spoke 182 (4 wheels without tires) $1,654
All Weather Rubber Floor Mats $81
BMW Base Support System $175
BMW Roof Box 460 $950
Rear Bumper Bike Rack $575
Touring Cycle and Mountain Bike Holder $110
Destination & Handling: $775
Total MSRP as Built $51,165
But tell me, why in the hell would you possibly need any more than what I selected. I wouldnt want any more than that in an Evo. Everything selected in the left column is what I would get and its about on par with a Evo X GSR with SSW package. Oh, and can you show me the exact MSRP of the X GSR, because I havent seen it yet. Thanks.
P.s. Whoever said the BMW is a overpriced Jetta is an idiot. I've driven both BMWs and VWs, apparently you havent. To call a BMW a Jetta is just ridiculous.
This is what I would choose:
My 135i Coupe 3.0-liter, turbocharged inline 6-cylinder engine
Rear-wheel drive
Base MSRP $34,900
Jet Black $0
Black Boston Leather $1,450 (Note: Leatherette is standard)
Glacier Aluminum Trim $0
Sport Package $1000
- Sport Seats
- M sport steering wheel
- Black matte finish window framing
Destination and Handling $775
Total MSRP as built $38,125
This is total insanity:
Base MSRP $34,900
Black Sapphire Metallic $475
Black Boston Leather $0
Glacier Silver Aluminum Trim $0
Cold Weather Package $600
Premium Package $3,300
Sport Package $1,000
Active Steering $1,400
Comfort Access system $500
Navigation system $2,100
HD radio $350
iPod and USB adapter $400
Premium hi-fi system $875
Satellite radio $595
Park Distance Control (rear only) $350
18" Double Spoke 182 (4 wheels without tires) $1,654
All Weather Rubber Floor Mats $81
BMW Base Support System $175
BMW Roof Box 460 $950
Rear Bumper Bike Rack $575
Touring Cycle and Mountain Bike Holder $110
Destination & Handling: $775
Total MSRP as Built $51,165
But tell me, why in the hell would you possibly need any more than what I selected. I wouldnt want any more than that in an Evo. Everything selected in the left column is what I would get and its about on par with a Evo X GSR with SSW package. Oh, and can you show me the exact MSRP of the X GSR, because I havent seen it yet. Thanks.
P.s. Whoever said the BMW is a overpriced Jetta is an idiot. I've driven both BMWs and VWs, apparently you havent. To call a BMW a Jetta is just ridiculous.
And to answer your question on Evo base price, It's been discussed on this site and mentioned by Mitsu. reps to the media that the car will come in under $34,000. It's how much under that has yet t-b-announced.
#68
the 135i and the EVO X MR look like they're around the same weight, around 3400-3500lbs. Aftermarket on both will be somewhat limited (moreso for the 135i) until people catch up and start making more things.
The 335i "overheating" is one of two problems. Some of it was because early models that didn't have a package that included an oil cooler. BMW is retrofitting these cars last I checked, although there are cases where people hit 300+ driving hard. The car will beep and shut off or go into limp.
Also, early models had a temp gauge that is marked 150-210-300. if the car is running oil temps between 230F-260F (which most do) the needle sits between 210 and 300 and looks awfully close to the end of the gauge, which looks like it's overheating. Also, those temperatures for oil are unheard of for japanese cars, too. Most import owners worry when their oil temps start touching 210. funny side note, BMW ended up changing the scale of the gauge so it reads something like 180-240-340 so people don't panic as much since the gauge won't point all the way over when you're driving hard.
some guys modding already alright .... But i'm sure you know better since we did modify it already . You don't know how 135 will be react on mods too. So we can talk about the past experience in both manufacturer car. Mitshu vs BMW...
So we know the 335i have issues over heating etc already... But nothing yet on the X . SO wait...
So we know the 335i have issues over heating etc already... But nothing yet on the X . SO wait...
Also, early models had a temp gauge that is marked 150-210-300. if the car is running oil temps between 230F-260F (which most do) the needle sits between 210 and 300 and looks awfully close to the end of the gauge, which looks like it's overheating. Also, those temperatures for oil are unheard of for japanese cars, too. Most import owners worry when their oil temps start touching 210. funny side note, BMW ended up changing the scale of the gauge so it reads something like 180-240-340 so people don't panic as much since the gauge won't point all the way over when you're driving hard.
Last edited by AREITU; Dec 21, 2007 at 03:08 PM.
#69
I don't know what I'm gonna get either...
I like the 135 and I like the x too..
Why is it so hard to choose
This looks good:
But this is nice too... :
I'm gonna have to drive both
And than prob. choose the X
I like the 135 and I like the x too..
Why is it so hard to choose
This looks good:
But this is nice too... :
I'm gonna have to drive both
And than prob. choose the X
#70
if you plan moddin' your car to the max, go with Japanese cars. period. Not saying its going to be cheap, but overall, cost of maintenance and the price of their aftermarket parts are usually marginal cheaper than European cars.
European cars are expensive to up keep and aftermarket parts are usually far more expensive than japanese counterpart.
just my 2cents
European cars are expensive to up keep and aftermarket parts are usually far more expensive than japanese counterpart.
just my 2cents
#72
Also, you have to talk real life cost, forget the maintenance nonsense, even at initial purchase price, try to find a dealer that sells optionless BMW. Finding one that sells below MSRP is pretty challenging as well. In real life, generally you'll see price tag of high 30's for 135i and mid 40's for 335i, almost always equipped with at least one 'package' option.
#73
Drive a X when it is available, then a 335i
Drive 'em back to back - a X and a 335i. The 135i should feel a little smaller/more nimble than the 335i. Careful though - after reclining in all the luxury the 335i interior and options gives, then dropping the right foot hammer on the 335i and getting a hella rush from the butt dyno - your decision will be much harder.
The X will likely be the better performer - and a beast if stripped and turned into a dedicated track car. For mostly street and some motorsport use, the BMW wins the overall race IMHO.
My 45k went to a nicely optioned 335i (2k below MSRP). I had planned on evaluating a X vs 135i for my next ride this spring. After driving the 335i, I signed on the line and have had the big permagrin ever since. Hated to part with the VIII but the time had come.
Good luck in your decision. In the end, you probably can't go wrong either way - both the X and the 135i are likely to be great cars (as is the 335i.) Which one is best for you will come down to what you want in what I assume is a daily driver.
The X will likely be the better performer - and a beast if stripped and turned into a dedicated track car. For mostly street and some motorsport use, the BMW wins the overall race IMHO.
My 45k went to a nicely optioned 335i (2k below MSRP). I had planned on evaluating a X vs 135i for my next ride this spring. After driving the 335i, I signed on the line and have had the big permagrin ever since. Hated to part with the VIII but the time had come.
Good luck in your decision. In the end, you probably can't go wrong either way - both the X and the 135i are likely to be great cars (as is the 335i.) Which one is best for you will come down to what you want in what I assume is a daily driver.