Evo X vs. modern BMW cars (All X General threads merged)
Aug 18, 2008, 02:09 PM
#872
Evolving Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was obvious from the beginning that the ones with the least horsepower would be at a disadvantage. And sure enough, the Lotus Exige S 240 brought up the rear, just behind the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR, which stayed surprisingly close to the BMW M3, thanks to higher speeds through the corners.
"The Lotus was fun, but lacked power. The Evo felt really stable, with a little bit of understeer through the turns, which is actually a good thing on an oval. Its major problem was the gearing. I found myself between 5th and 6th a lot, which hurt its performance coming out of corners. As for BMW's M3, the engine is fantastic, as I hit almost 150 mph on the straight, but it wasn't stable over the bumps at the exit of Turn 3. That slowed me down a bit," Yasukawa said.
So the M3 is fast but not faster on the turns, EVOs just need a little TLC and tune for tune mod for mod it should be a better race car than the M3.
"The Lotus was fun, but lacked power. The Evo felt really stable, with a little bit of understeer through the turns, which is actually a good thing on an oval. Its major problem was the gearing. I found myself between 5th and 6th a lot, which hurt its performance coming out of corners. As for BMW's M3, the engine is fantastic, as I hit almost 150 mph on the straight, but it wasn't stable over the bumps at the exit of Turn 3. That slowed me down a bit," Yasukawa said.
So the M3 is fast but not faster on the turns, EVOs just need a little TLC and tune for tune mod for mod it should be a better race car than the M3.
Aug 18, 2008, 03:07 PM
#873
Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm pretty sure most Evo owners use their cars mostly for the street...it's more than using it for street or track. It's what you want...the feeling you want when you drive the car...
Aug 18, 2008, 06:29 PM
#874
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: moss beach, ca
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I combined these, because they are still the same topic. There were 7 135i vs. X threads in this forum alone at one point. They need to stay in one place so as not to pollute X General with a bunch of off topic stuff.
I say drive both extensively and get what you like. If you want a no holds barred racecar with great handling for affordable money, you definitely want the Evo X.
As far as power output potential on stock turbos, the N54 is greater than a 4B11. I had a 335i, then an X, now a 135i, so I have a good bit of experience with these two engines.
This lower powered graph is my X on the dyno at Dyno4mance. On this dyno, a stock X with the second factory revision flash put down 222whp. The lower graph in this pic is 277whp. It includes a Works filter, Ultimate cat-back, and EcuTeK custom tune. The higher powered graph is the remainder of the exhaust, so a catless turbo-back, air filter, and EcuTeK custom remap for those extra exhaust bits. Final call was 290whp as you can see.
Next up are 135i results from yesterday on the same dyno. It made 252whp stock in the lower graph. The higher graph is with a Vishnu PROcede attached. This car has a green engine, with only 860 miles at time of dyno. My 335i made about 60 wheel torque more than this car due to the fact it has the new ECU revision. BMW can detect mods with the new ECU to a degree, so this is what is called a "Doomsday" map, which flies under the radar of the detection with a softer tune. No other mods: Stock exhaust, stock paper filter, stock cat.
For clarification, the 135i also weighs 200 pounds less than the X. The low end power in the N54 is nice. I average about 4 miles per gallon better, and the car will pull with authority on the interstate even in sixth gear at 1500rpm.
Acceleration comparison? I think my old Evo would win on a dragstrip due to a substantially better 60 foot. The 1 series is not going to be very exciting at the tree with those stock runflats. Comparison from a 30mph roll? There is none. This 135i would leave my old X in the dust with no effort.
I do miss a couple things from the X. I miss the wonderful handling and that awesome SAYC. I miss the seats a ton. But I am a dad who uses his car 99% of the time for commuting and regular driving. I really enjoyed my X, but have absolutely no regrets trading it for a 135i.
I say drive both extensively and get what you like. If you want a no holds barred racecar with great handling for affordable money, you definitely want the Evo X.
As far as power output potential on stock turbos, the N54 is greater than a 4B11. I had a 335i, then an X, now a 135i, so I have a good bit of experience with these two engines.
This lower powered graph is my X on the dyno at Dyno4mance. On this dyno, a stock X with the second factory revision flash put down 222whp. The lower graph in this pic is 277whp. It includes a Works filter, Ultimate cat-back, and EcuTeK custom tune. The higher powered graph is the remainder of the exhaust, so a catless turbo-back, air filter, and EcuTeK custom remap for those extra exhaust bits. Final call was 290whp as you can see.
Next up are 135i results from yesterday on the same dyno. It made 252whp stock in the lower graph. The higher graph is with a Vishnu PROcede attached. This car has a green engine, with only 860 miles at time of dyno. My 335i made about 60 wheel torque more than this car due to the fact it has the new ECU revision. BMW can detect mods with the new ECU to a degree, so this is what is called a "Doomsday" map, which flies under the radar of the detection with a softer tune. No other mods: Stock exhaust, stock paper filter, stock cat.
For clarification, the 135i also weighs 200 pounds less than the X. The low end power in the N54 is nice. I average about 4 miles per gallon better, and the car will pull with authority on the interstate even in sixth gear at 1500rpm.
Acceleration comparison? I think my old Evo would win on a dragstrip due to a substantially better 60 foot. The 1 series is not going to be very exciting at the tree with those stock runflats. Comparison from a 30mph roll? There is none. This 135i would leave my old X in the dust with no effort.
I do miss a couple things from the X. I miss the wonderful handling and that awesome SAYC. I miss the seats a ton. But I am a dad who uses his car 99% of the time for commuting and regular driving. I really enjoyed my X, but have absolutely no regrets trading it for a 135i.
Aug 18, 2008, 10:16 PM
#876
How quickly sweet turns to sour. There's no need to be nasty, especially since it comes off as a bit hypocritical. Were you not vascillating about giving your car up for a new X fairly recently, primary criterion being: "which is more fun?" and the fact that "the SAYC was singing its siren song" (to you)?
Lastly, I'm pretty sure the point of this thread is for forum members to compare these two factory turbo cars as has been done several times in the media. I love both. The one I have now makes the best sense for me.
Aug 19, 2008, 06:26 AM
#877
Evolving Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Roanoke, Va, USA
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The "speed" is all relative to what you do. I back road bang all the time. And the X dominates that. I don't really go to the strip or feel the need to be dumb, and "street-race". And last time I checked, Rally cars weren't made to be straight-line rockets, its all in handling. Which the X does pretty damn good. X FTW. The elitist IX owners can go back to their hole.
Last edited by CC16; Aug 19, 2008 at 06:33 AM.
Aug 19, 2008, 06:30 AM
#878
Evolved Member
iTrader: (24)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 1,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nope hope stock for stock...you might want to get some serious power mods and unless you upgrade the turbo, you're gonna get killed on the highway...a really high-revving v-8 is what you're up against.
Aug 19, 2008, 07:24 AM
#879
Evolved Member
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SL,UT
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saying you've passed them may or may not be a huge accomplishment anyway. X person in A car passed Y person in B car.
Well that's great, but how does X person do in B car and vice versa? I've passed plenty of cars that should've been faster than me, and been passed by plenty that I should've been faster than. The point of all this isn't to say you suck, or that the 997 drivers sucked, it is just to say that all of you are human.
Anyway, I'm rambling off topic. Back on topic: and more back to the "Yes but at what cost" Even if the X was faster, I'd rather have the BMW luxury and styling in a fast car package, rather than my sister's power wheel in a fast car package.
In short: In order to hang with the M3, you'll need to spend 30k on interior, quality and brand name improvements... Plus you'll have to buy some sort of aftermarket warranty, God knows Mitsubishi isn't gonna cover you
Aug 19, 2008, 07:47 AM
#880
Yes, but at what cost? Don't get me wrong, yes I am a Porsche fan, but I have no delusions that any 996 or 997 (other than the TT and GTs) would have an easy time trying to hang with any Evo. And as is always the case, it is a matter of personal preference, but I'd rather pay double for a car, and get double the quality.
Saying you've passed them may or may not be a huge accomplishment anyway. X person in A car passed Y person in B car.
Well that's great, but how does X person do in B car and vice versa? I've passed plenty of cars that should've been faster than me, and been passed by plenty that I should've been faster than. The point of all this isn't to say you suck, or that the 997 drivers sucked, it is just to say that all of you are human.
Anyway, I'm rambling off topic. Back on topic: and more back to the "Yes but at what cost" Even if the X was faster, I'd rather have the BMW luxury and styling in a fast car package, rather than my sister's power wheel in a fast car package.
In short: In order to hang with the M3, you'll need to spend 30k on interior, quality and brand name improvements... Plus you'll have to buy some sort of aftermarket warranty, God knows Mitsubishi isn't gonna cover you
Saying you've passed them may or may not be a huge accomplishment anyway. X person in A car passed Y person in B car.
Well that's great, but how does X person do in B car and vice versa? I've passed plenty of cars that should've been faster than me, and been passed by plenty that I should've been faster than. The point of all this isn't to say you suck, or that the 997 drivers sucked, it is just to say that all of you are human.
Anyway, I'm rambling off topic. Back on topic: and more back to the "Yes but at what cost" Even if the X was faster, I'd rather have the BMW luxury and styling in a fast car package, rather than my sister's power wheel in a fast car package.
In short: In order to hang with the M3, you'll need to spend 30k on interior, quality and brand name improvements... Plus you'll have to buy some sort of aftermarket warranty, God knows Mitsubishi isn't gonna cover you
So you are on the wrong forum then.
Did you ever think about it, why the BMW have a free maintenance?
Because they so kind????
Or because nobody would buy them , if you need to go that many times for the service and pay for it?
Last edited by Robevo RS; Aug 19, 2008 at 07:50 AM.
Aug 19, 2008, 07:52 AM
#882
Evolved Member
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Stavanger
Posts: 1,240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The best thing about the new M3 is that its available as a sedan.... now I just need to find $60k.
I agree with most. You may need some basic mods/tune and you'll be fine for most events (quarter mile, autox, short road courses). Don't bother with the highway unless you are gonna go with a big turbo...
I agree with most. You may need some basic mods/tune and you'll be fine for most events (quarter mile, autox, short road courses). Don't bother with the highway unless you are gonna go with a big turbo...
Aug 19, 2008, 08:10 AM
#883
Evolved Member
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: salt lake city
Posts: 888
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont think its fair to compare both cars in all aspects, because obviously one is a high performance 4 banger that is performance for a bargain, where as the BMW is a luxury performance car with twice as many cylinders and twice the price- from a pure performance standpoint, the Evo X is still the better performer for the money, even with the mods it would take to out-perform the BMW... and with the gains from bolt-ons and flashing we have seen so far I beleive it WOULD take the M3 on track/quater mile-
Aug 19, 2008, 08:42 AM
#884
Evolved Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DE
Posts: 2,193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, but at what cost? Don't get me wrong, yes I am a Porsche fan, but I have no delusions that any 996 or 997 (other than the TT and GTs) would have an easy time trying to hang with any Evo. And as is always the case, it is a matter of personal preference, but I'd rather pay double for a car, and get double the quality.
Saying you've passed them may or may not be a huge accomplishment anyway. X person in A car passed Y person in B car.
Well that's great, but how does X person do in B car and vice versa? I've passed plenty of cars that should've been faster than me, and been passed by plenty that I should've been faster than. The point of all this isn't to say you suck, or that the 997 drivers sucked, it is just to say that all of you are human.
Anyway, I'm rambling off topic. Back on topic: and more back to the "Yes but at what cost" Even if the X was faster, I'd rather have the BMW luxury and styling in a fast car package, rather than my sister's power wheel in a fast car package.
In short: In order to hang with the M3, you'll need to spend 30k on interior, quality and brand name improvements... Plus you'll have to buy some sort of aftermarket warranty, God knows Mitsubishi isn't gonna cover you
Saying you've passed them may or may not be a huge accomplishment anyway. X person in A car passed Y person in B car.
Well that's great, but how does X person do in B car and vice versa? I've passed plenty of cars that should've been faster than me, and been passed by plenty that I should've been faster than. The point of all this isn't to say you suck, or that the 997 drivers sucked, it is just to say that all of you are human.
Anyway, I'm rambling off topic. Back on topic: and more back to the "Yes but at what cost" Even if the X was faster, I'd rather have the BMW luxury and styling in a fast car package, rather than my sister's power wheel in a fast car package.
In short: In order to hang with the M3, you'll need to spend 30k on interior, quality and brand name improvements... Plus you'll have to buy some sort of aftermarket warranty, God knows Mitsubishi isn't gonna cover you
I don't particularly care about luxury or interior quality which is frankly why I'll never own another new luxury automobile. The Evo has a stereo and cold air conditioning. That's enough for me. I think "double the quality" is a bit disingenuous as I have little doubt that my Evo is more reliable than my 997 and will cost substantially less in running costs over its lifetime. If you want to harp about the solid feel of the doors or lovely interior trim, I make no argument that you do not get more with a Porsche or BMW.
I'm not knocking Porsche or BMW as they build brilliant cars but don't see them as something that fits my personal preference, at least not the new cars. If I buy another German car, it will be an air-cooled Porsche or an E30 M3.
So, to answer "at what cost," the answer is "substantially less cost with substantially more grins on my face."
Last edited by MrBonus; Aug 19, 2008 at 08:48 AM.
