tripperfx3

iTrader: (6)

I believe Al did a test where he ran straight water and made no power. Meth would be the way to go. Like everyone's saying just get a good tuner that knows what they are doing. I've know a few people that have blown their engines running meth, but many more that haven't. I was personally thinking about getting it to counteract the thin air here at 4000ft along with the crappy 91oct. It would be a conservative tune though as I personally perfer to err on the side of caution when it comes to my daily driver.

KawRider

iTrader: (8)

There is no differance. Straight water is not going to be a solution to you my friend. There is no magic cure to make your car super fast. Pure 100% meth is actually what you want to run (if you decide to). But with your level of experiance, I would highly reccomend against it.

Joe's Evo X

iTrader: (4)

Well i am having Mitch from vivid racing tune it. I guess the people i go thru contract him to come down there and they spoke with him on the phone today and he said that he would be able to tune the **** out of the car.

But know one answered my question how is he running 100% water. and still run that high of boost look at his thread.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=347379

Joe's Evo X

iTrader: (4)

^^^^^ well i talked to a buddy of mine and he explained it a lil better for me but still i would be running 50/50 but thats just me.

KawRider

iTrader: (8)

You are talking about 1 person who turned his boost up, on a stock tune (really rich) running car, and pumped water in to help reduce knock. Then he drives it around with a big TQE spike from the initial boost spike without any monitoring to check for knock and proper AFR, and he declares his car is making big power. (But is it making big power safely?) Anyone can make more power by turning the boost up, but without data logging to check for knock or excessive lean condition, your motor is a ticking time bomb. If you run meth with an eggressive timing and boost curve without data logging, and a proper failsafe your motor is also a ticking time bomb. Some tuners will install a meth kit and then tune only slightly more agressively than a non-meth tune, and that way if you should run out of meth, or have an air pocket in the meth system, your ECU should be able to take care of a light to moderate knock scenario, but then what is the point of running meth? Honestly it is a crude way of making power, and based on MHO (and experiance) it's better to get a more efficient turbo that can run higher boost without meth, on just plain old premium gas. On a 20G with ALL the supporting mods (no meth required), you can run 24-25 PSI daily with no knock. That is what I ended up with on my 9, and that is what I will do if I get a X. Do what makes you happy, but I believe by the time you spend the money to get a meth kit and some type of monitoring system, you could have just got a better flowing turbo fir a few bucks more, and have as much power, be safer, and not have to mess with filling a tank up all the time. Good luck and keep us posted.

mitsudave

iTrader: (3)

Another reason race gas is better...if you plan to run any track days, road racing, they won't let you run meth or NOS. I hear it is some kind of safety so you don't screw up everyones day by blowing up on the track, whatever but I have a lot of friends with Meth daily driving and it is great.
Race gas for track days.
I have bolt ons and race gas tune with 400whp.

steinvb12

iTrader: (4)

But how many times do you run race gas?? A few times a year??

We want that power all the time! So meth it is!

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

Meth injection is fine with most track day organizations. Nitrous is a different story.

At a typical track day, you burn 20+ gallons. In a weekend, 40+. Unless you are bringing a drum with you, you need to purchase that race gas at the track at inflated prices vs. buying pump gas outside the track facility and bringing 10 gallons or so of methanol from home. The savings is significant.

For the person above that said a flow sensor failsafe doesn't work if the hose comes off the nozzle, that's not the case with an Aquamist kit. It will trip the failsafe if the flow goes too high.

As far as the Zeitronix failsafe, it's tricky to set because when you roll into boost you are lean on spool-up and there's no delay feature in the failsafe, so you end up having to allow fairly lean AFRs before the failsafe will activate.

KawRider

iTrader: (8)

Only partially true. I had the Zeitronix setup. You can set a multiple trigger setup, so when you get a lean condition combined with a high egt, the failsafe will trigger, you can even add the RPM into the equation if you want to, it's quite a sophisticated system. Mine sent a signal to a solenoid that reduced boost to wastgate only pressure under certain combinations of lean and high egt. . I like the idea of the aquamist trigger for too high of a meth flow (Id like to see it in operation), what does it trigger when activated? Buzzer/light? Mine did those too (in addition to the safety solenoid).

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

I'm with you on the multiple trigger aspect, as I have the Zeitronix too and am thinking about getting an EGT sensor to supplement the "complex" failsafe trigger. On the Aquamist (which I also have), too much flow will trigger whatever you want -- depends on the install. In my case, it cuts boost to wastegate pressure via interrupting the EBC solenoid power for improper flow or low fluid level in the meth tank, but you could also easily wire in a relay and have it sound a train horn in the trunk if that's what you wanted

Joe's Evo X

iTrader: (4)

Ok well i think i am going to do it. I am probley going to run the aquamist system. I think i rather spend a lil mor money and have a Piece of mind. Ill keep you guys posted. thanks for all the pros and cons.

EVIL MR

iTrader: (5)

what's up man. Nice to see you on here again. I think it's all about who tune the car I made 516 / 443 on meth at a very easy going tune. Stock block and CAMS. I know if I add some good cams it will make another 30+ at the current set up.

FlyboyX

I'd go with a 50/50 mix for a few reasons. 100% methanol is dangerous in a variety of ways, diluting it with water makes it safer. Ongoing costs are less when using 50% water and the supply system doesn't need to be as carefully designed. You probably won't get there, but methanol will knock with a high enough compression ratio, the addition of water would enable a higher manifold pressure or compression ratio than with pure methanol. You can make 100% water work, but a 50/50 ratio has more potential. Have some solid fail safes in place to prevent damage to the motor.

As for methanol vs race gas, I haven't seen a good comparison of the two, but I suspect 93 octane plus a 50/50 mix could be made to produce more power than race gas.

T-Rex

Guys Meth is used to lower intake air temp. which lowers the detonation threshold thats why you can run more boost. If you mix the meth with water you lower the rate at which heat is removed from the air. Hence you are working backwards. Also pure meth burns more easily than a mix of meth with water. You will make power running meth but not as much torque because of the timing map for meth inj. is different than race gas. Hence more torque with race gas and thats what you need to move a car from a dig that weighs over 3000lbs. However as a few of you mentioned for daily driving at a higher power level meth is the way to go. I run pump gas with a bigger turbo (50 Trim) so I dont need meth to make over 420 HP. Just choose a setup based on ur application.

FlyboyX

Methanol and/or water injection does more than just lower the intake air temperature. The point of injecting methanol isn't to burn it, the engine is already going to be slightly rich so there is unburnt gas available, and gasoline provides much more energy on a per mass basis than methanol, so you'd rather burn it than the methanol.

I'm not following why different timing for race gas or meth. injection is that relevant if timing is optimized for the different conditions. The point of meth injection is to help prevent knock, and at peak torque that would especially be the case, so making more torque with race gas does not seem like a foregone conclusion.