Mitsubishi as a brand
Jul 17, 2008, 03:02 PM
#61
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The idea of loyalty to a corporation is one of the many things that make capitalism work. But this is a lot more simple: I just have some brand loyalty in support of a company that produces a vehicle I like. If you can't understand that concept, you probably wasted your time posting in this thread in the first place.
Customers are loyal when they feel good about your brand and trust it to deliver what they want... consistently...
It will take more than VEO owner support to fix mitsu.. it has to start from upper management in the company on down to design, engineering and QC....
Jul 17, 2008, 03:04 PM
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It does not matter what they use as long as it does not break.. it must not break under any possible human natural force.
Jul 17, 2008, 03:05 PM
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Jul 17, 2008, 03:29 PM
#64
I don't really agree with that bolded part. And I know that Hyundai is doing just great now, but I will not buy one of their cars, as they are all soulless to me.
Do you just absolutely hate Mitsubishi? I see you really active in here and posting the sales data threads often. What is your personal take? Did you own an Evo in the past?
Do you just absolutely hate Mitsubishi? I see you really active in here and posting the sales data threads often. What is your personal take? Did you own an Evo in the past?
To your second point about posting the sales data. I simply post it for people to discuss. If I don't do it, someone else will. If you go back and check out those threads, you'll see that I stand up for the X despite it's perceived low sales numbers. If you like, I'm more than happy to stop contributing to the forum by posting the data. Just say the word.
For your last point about trying to find out where I'm coming from. Trust me on this...I'm pulling for Mitsu. I've been a fan since the Starion days
I've owned a 3000GT. I've owned an Eclipse GSX. I also owned an Evo IX. I spent several years of my career working at Mitsubishi's ad agency (Deutsch LA) in the early 2000s doing all the good advertising that everyone remembers (people dancing in the cars, all the great music, etc). I worked on the team that launched the Evo VIII in the US. I was one of the first people to drive it on US soil. Remember this commercial? It's one of mine... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sdcNVCrYroI've spent countless days in the Cypress headquarters. Likely more than 99.9% of the people on this forum. I'm a Mitsubishi guy through and through. I sold my IX for an R32 and now I'm thinking about coming back to get an Evo X. But, overall for Mitsu as a company, I see the writing on the wall. I know the struggles they have internally. If you read the very end of my previous post, you'll see that I believe there is hope. Mazda is the perfect example (also worked for them as well and launched the Zoom-Zoom campaign). Mazda nearly left the US in the late 90s because they lost their way as a brand and built soulless cars that noone wanted to buy because the competitors had better cars. My team got Mazda to get back to their roots and start designing fun-to-drive cars that people actually wanted to buy. When I first started with Mazda, they were selling 150k-160k cars a year. They now sell well over 300k cars a year. Why was Mazda successful? They went back to the roots of the company and their core differentiators.
And all the talk about the dealership experience (this is not directed as you, Noize, since I think you get it)...I don't completely buy it. The grass isn't greener on the other side. Regardless of brand, the overwhelming majority of dealers are bad (except for Lexus who always scores #1 in dealership satifaction surveys). Did everyone know that Toyota is consistently rated as the worst dealership experience of any brand? But, that doesn't stop people from buying Toyota vehicles in record numbers. Why? Because Toyota builds cars, trucks and SUVs that people want. They want them so badly that they'll put up with a crappy dealership experience. Sound familiar to all us Evo guys? It is because we overlook the crappy dealership experience because we all want(ed) an Evo so badly the horrible service didn't deter us. Great product is king in the automotive industry. It cures ALL evils.
Anyhow, it can be done. Mitsu just needs to get back to making cars that people want and are differentiated enough from their competitors.
Last edited by atombomb33; Jul 17, 2008 at 04:03 PM.
Jul 17, 2008, 03:35 PM
#65
I tell you what, adambl03 is spot on about dealerships.
Here in Dallas, there is one good toyota dealership. The one I used SUCKED (it was convenient though). All of the nissan dealerships are TERRIBLE. Hyundai, Dodge, Ford and Chevy are all really bad. Honda is mixed, but nowadays they aren't dealing at all. Mazda is so-so.
From a luxury perspective, BMW dealerships are ok, but if you try and make a deal its like you insulted them. If you didn't buy your car from them you are a 2nd class citizen. Infiniti dealers are mixed (service good though at all). I don't have enough experience with MB/Jag or LR dealers to comment on their quality.
The Lexus dealers here are the best. Honestly the treatment my wife gets at the Lexus dealer is making the decision for a new car for her difficult because while I'd like a 335i or m3, the IS350/IS-F is appealing from the dealership/service standpoint.
Here in Dallas, there is one good toyota dealership. The one I used SUCKED (it was convenient though). All of the nissan dealerships are TERRIBLE. Hyundai, Dodge, Ford and Chevy are all really bad. Honda is mixed, but nowadays they aren't dealing at all. Mazda is so-so.
From a luxury perspective, BMW dealerships are ok, but if you try and make a deal its like you insulted them. If you didn't buy your car from them you are a 2nd class citizen. Infiniti dealers are mixed (service good though at all). I don't have enough experience with MB/Jag or LR dealers to comment on their quality.
The Lexus dealers here are the best. Honestly the treatment my wife gets at the Lexus dealer is making the decision for a new car for her difficult because while I'd like a 335i or m3, the IS350/IS-F is appealing from the dealership/service standpoint.
Jul 17, 2008, 03:38 PM
#66
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While I appreciate mitsu as a brand there is a huge disconnect between MMNA and the dealers themselves. Your only interaction is with the dealer and therefore you get a bad impression of the company as a whole. In the end, everyone at a dealer is a salesman. They are all trying to get the last dime from both you and MMNA.
I had a great experience with the parts department in dekalb, IL. Service department... not so knowledgable. Sales staff.... horrendous. If I didn't love DSMs and know what the evo could do the impressions i got from the other departments would have been enough to turn me off to Mitsubishi completely... forever. Guess what, that dealership closed. Surprised?
You are trying to charge me $500 over msrp after $1500 in rebates, have a 16 year old drive me car to me from 400 miles away, and can't remember my name after numerous times I've come in. That's your lead salesman teaming up with the owner of the dealership? Your other salesman know NOTHING about your cars and you put an OZ rally on the showroom floor and leave the evos out in the rain? You talk to me like I'm some ricer when I'm trying to buy a car and clearly don't carry that attitude? The local dealership where I bought my evo tries to say my coupon from MMNA is not valid for a free oil change and inspection on the evo and try to charge $90 for it when it has my VIN on it?! ... then you don't even do the inspection or give me the time of day?
That's the experience I'm talking about, and it rings true with 98% of the dealerships. MMNA as a whole is great, but the people you interact with are horrible. In either case its a business relationship. I love the car, but the brand is just a brand to me.
Some other company releases an affordable evo killer that gets better gas milage, performs better, is more comfortable, cheaper to service, etc you bet I'm going to jump ship. If nothing else I would do so because the interaction I have with dealers has been horrible and way negative overall.
The sad thing is that if MMNA was a financing company they would probably be better off overall. Do you know how the big 'merican companies make their money? ...the car brand is generally barely making margin, its the financing department the pulls in the real bucks.
I had a great experience with the parts department in dekalb, IL. Service department... not so knowledgable. Sales staff.... horrendous. If I didn't love DSMs and know what the evo could do the impressions i got from the other departments would have been enough to turn me off to Mitsubishi completely... forever. Guess what, that dealership closed. Surprised?
You are trying to charge me $500 over msrp after $1500 in rebates, have a 16 year old drive me car to me from 400 miles away, and can't remember my name after numerous times I've come in. That's your lead salesman teaming up with the owner of the dealership? Your other salesman know NOTHING about your cars and you put an OZ rally on the showroom floor and leave the evos out in the rain? You talk to me like I'm some ricer when I'm trying to buy a car and clearly don't carry that attitude? The local dealership where I bought my evo tries to say my coupon from MMNA is not valid for a free oil change and inspection on the evo and try to charge $90 for it when it has my VIN on it?! ... then you don't even do the inspection or give me the time of day?
That's the experience I'm talking about, and it rings true with 98% of the dealerships. MMNA as a whole is great, but the people you interact with are horrible. In either case its a business relationship. I love the car, but the brand is just a brand to me.
Some other company releases an affordable evo killer that gets better gas milage, performs better, is more comfortable, cheaper to service, etc you bet I'm going to jump ship. If nothing else I would do so because the interaction I have with dealers has been horrible and way negative overall.
The sad thing is that if MMNA was a financing company they would probably be better off overall. Do you know how the big 'merican companies make their money? ...the car brand is generally barely making margin, its the financing department the pulls in the real bucks.
Jul 17, 2008, 03:42 PM
#67
Some other company releases an affordable evo killer that gets better gas milage, performs better, is more comfortable, cheaper to service, etc you bet I'm going to jump ship. If nothing else I would do so because the interaction I have with dealers has been horrible and way negative overall.
Now if you'd said "if any other brand [except kia] made a comparable car for a comparable price then I would jump ship and never consider the evo" then that would be a completely different statement (and what I anticipate you meant to say).
Jul 17, 2008, 03:48 PM
#68
i think mitsu biggest downfall is the NA dealerships. they dont have any pride in what they are offering, heck some probably dont even know what an Evo is! i used to have a Mitsu dealer here in town and before i got my Evo i had called them to see if they had one in stock and the sales rep didnt even know what i was talking about and never called me back. now for a sales rep to never call u back is pretty unheard of lol. they are now closed. MMNA is going to have to look into thier dealerships alittle more. if they can crack down on them and have a more "stand up" warranty then i think they can do just fine. Mitsu cars have always been great. they just have to find a way to keep their dealerships online.
Jul 17, 2008, 04:07 PM
#69
First, the Hyundai/Kia comment. Most enthusiasts (like all of us) definitely will agree that Hyundai/Kia do not make a great car for guys like us. But, as an overall brand (which is what this thread is about), you can't argue with the fact that Hyundai sells nearly 4 times as many cars as Mitsu and Kia sells nearly 3 times as many. The general public is choosing Hyundai and Kia.
To your second point about posting the sales data. I simply post it for people to discuss. If I don't do it, someone else will. If you go back and check out those threads, you'll see that I stand up for the X despite it's perceived low sales numbers. If you like, I'm more than happy to stop contributing to the forum by posting the data. Just say the word.
For your last point about trying to find out where I'm coming from. Trust me on this...I'm pulling for Mitsu. I've been a fan since the Starion days I've owned a 3000GT. I've owned an Eclipse GSX. I also owned an Evo IX. I spent several years of my career working at Mitsubishi's ad agency (Deutsch LA) in the early 2000s doing all the good advertising that everyone remembers (people dancing in the cars, all the great music, etc). I worked on the team that launched the Evo VIII in the US. I was one of the first people to drive it on US soil. Remember this commercial? It's one of mine... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sdcNVCrYro
I've spent countless days in the Cypress headquarters. Likely more than 99.9% of the people on this forum. I'm a Mitsubishi guy through and through. I sold my IX for an R32 and now I'm thinking about coming back to get an Evo X. But, overall for Mitsu as a company, I see the writing on the wall. I know the struggles they have internally. If you read the very end of my previous post, you'll see that I believe there is hope. Mazda is the perfect example (also worked for them as well and launched the Zoom-Zoom campaign). Mazda nearly left the US in the late 90s because they lost their way as a brand and built soulless cars that noone wanted to buy because the competitors had better cars. My team got Mazda to get back to their roots and start designing fun-to-drive cars that people actually wanted to buy. When I first started with Mazda, they were selling 150k-160k cars a year. They now sell well over 300k cars a year. Why was Mazda successful? They went back to the roots of the company and their core differentiators.
And all the talk about the dealership experience (this is not directed as you, Noize, since I think you get it)...I don't completely buy it. The grass isn't greener on the other side. Regardless of brand, the overwhelming majority of dealers are bad (except for Lexus who always scores #1 in dealership satifaction surveys). Did everyone know that Toyota is consistently rated as the worst dealership experience of any brand? But, that doesn't stop people from buying Toyota vehicles in record numbers. Why? Because Toyota builds cars, trucks and SUVs that people want. They want them so badly that they'll put up with a crappy dealership experience. Sound familiar to all us Evo guys? It is because we overlook the crappy dealership experience because we all want(ed) an Evo so badly the horrible service didn't deter us. Great product is king in the automotive industry. It cures ALL evils.
Anyhow, it can be done. Mitsu just needs to get back to making cars that people want and are differentiated enough from their competitors.
To your second point about posting the sales data. I simply post it for people to discuss. If I don't do it, someone else will. If you go back and check out those threads, you'll see that I stand up for the X despite it's perceived low sales numbers. If you like, I'm more than happy to stop contributing to the forum by posting the data. Just say the word.
For your last point about trying to find out where I'm coming from. Trust me on this...I'm pulling for Mitsu. I've been a fan since the Starion days
I've owned a 3000GT. I've owned an Eclipse GSX. I also owned an Evo IX. I spent several years of my career working at Mitsubishi's ad agency (Deutsch LA) in the early 2000s doing all the good advertising that everyone remembers (people dancing in the cars, all the great music, etc). I worked on the team that launched the Evo VIII in the US. I was one of the first people to drive it on US soil. Remember this commercial? It's one of mine... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sdcNVCrYroI've spent countless days in the Cypress headquarters. Likely more than 99.9% of the people on this forum. I'm a Mitsubishi guy through and through. I sold my IX for an R32 and now I'm thinking about coming back to get an Evo X. But, overall for Mitsu as a company, I see the writing on the wall. I know the struggles they have internally. If you read the very end of my previous post, you'll see that I believe there is hope. Mazda is the perfect example (also worked for them as well and launched the Zoom-Zoom campaign). Mazda nearly left the US in the late 90s because they lost their way as a brand and built soulless cars that noone wanted to buy because the competitors had better cars. My team got Mazda to get back to their roots and start designing fun-to-drive cars that people actually wanted to buy. When I first started with Mazda, they were selling 150k-160k cars a year. They now sell well over 300k cars a year. Why was Mazda successful? They went back to the roots of the company and their core differentiators.
And all the talk about the dealership experience (this is not directed as you, Noize, since I think you get it)...I don't completely buy it. The grass isn't greener on the other side. Regardless of brand, the overwhelming majority of dealers are bad (except for Lexus who always scores #1 in dealership satifaction surveys). Did everyone know that Toyota is consistently rated as the worst dealership experience of any brand? But, that doesn't stop people from buying Toyota vehicles in record numbers. Why? Because Toyota builds cars, trucks and SUVs that people want. They want them so badly that they'll put up with a crappy dealership experience. Sound familiar to all us Evo guys? It is because we overlook the crappy dealership experience because we all want(ed) an Evo so badly the horrible service didn't deter us. Great product is king in the automotive industry. It cures ALL evils.
Anyhow, it can be done. Mitsu just needs to get back to making cars that people want and are differentiated enough from their competitors.
I hope you end up with an Evo X.
Jul 17, 2008, 04:32 PM
#70
the reality of most who diss the mitsubishi brand are probably new to the evo scene and suddenly realized how great a car the evo is. Mostly poseurs who wants stature brand like bmw, mb, audi until they get to see what the evo is capable of. I can afford to buy a p-car but prefers the evo and anything mitsubishi.
Jul 17, 2008, 04:44 PM
#71
My first impression with bad service was the fact that after putting ****ty bearings in the 95-99 eclipses/talons, they wouldn't even cover it. It's like they put bad products in the internals, motor goes down because of rod knock or crankwalk, then they expect you to pay out of pocket to fix it. (If you choose to let them work on it). I'm not sure how there service is for the SUV's and others, but on the sport car side of the house, they suck. It is so hard to get anything fixed under warranty or even for a recall. Sure they'll do it, but they take there sweet *** time in doing so!
They do make some awesome cars and platforms, but as a brand, I will not support them based just on the service department.
They do make some awesome cars and platforms, but as a brand, I will not support them based just on the service department.
Jul 17, 2008, 04:52 PM
#72
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Let's consider the other options in the same price range along with what the cars have to offer to the individual. Honda, Subaru, and Nissan. And I only say those three because, let's face it, Japanese cars are in very few ways beautiful works of art that everyone desires. Each company has it's modern day muscle with it's own offering to the JDM nuts out there. Each car company makes cheaper than most cars that out perform cars costing 2x as much. Cheap is the term I'll use because the materials involved in the making of these cars is lackluster at best. But they are put together very neatly.
I will cut to the chase. I am a DSM fan to the fullest. I enjoy all other makes for what they are. Mitsubishi will have my heart always. I recently had my closest dealer close and I am now forced to travel only about 15 more minutes to get all my OEM parts. I will continue to go to that dealer until it closes and I will support Mitsubishi with other car purchases in the future. (not an Evo X, I have a IX that I will not get rid of)
Mitsubishi builds a great product.
How many car companies build cars that just make you want to go for a drive? No destination, just go. Toyota doesn't anymore, Honda has the S2000, Nissan has the 350z, Subaru has the STi.
I'm just gonna come out and say it. Most of the Evo owners I've met in the Metro DC are are tools. There is no group support mentality amongst owners and everyone I've tried to talk to has a superiority complex. I work with cars everyday I come home and browse internet videos of cars. I go out and drive around to find back roads that are windy and scenic. Evo owners in this area are all over but there is no comradery amongst owners. I go to Supra meets and S2k meets all of the time and everyone is so good about helping each other and talking about specs, and mods and whatever comes up. It's always a good time. Evo owners go to misc. car meets and show off there cars and talk about what they have and that's it. Get over it. I bought my car because I have wanted every DSM ever made when they were made and I will never change as long as Mitsu is around. I'm not out here to impress you people. I love my car.
It starts with supporting each other. Then supporting your local dealer. Keeping it real amongst other DSM owners and not getting cocky when you take your car into a dealer with aftermarket parts on your car that weren't designed at an OEM level and something that's messed up because of it. Suck it up. My car came with a Hundred Thousand mile powertrain warranty on it. That means, a stock car is designed in theory to go a full 100,000 miles without having a single powertrain issue as long as maintenance is done correctly. I see so many people talking about "the dealer refused the warranty claim" well No S**t, I wouldn't either if I saw an aftermarket clutch and the trans. failed or a changed ECU programming that fried your engine. You wanted more than what they offered to you from the factory so why should the factory support your attempt to throw their masterpiece out of balance. Every car company does the same thing but for some reason I don't see those owners complaining.
Sorry about the rant, But I'm sure someone who's bitter about the product they drive will prove my point and support the reason why mitsubishi is slowly fading away by responding to this post directly. Stop Hating. I say go ahead and buy another car that you love and learn to hate it because of some stupid s**t.
DSM 4 Life
Peace
I will cut to the chase. I am a DSM fan to the fullest. I enjoy all other makes for what they are. Mitsubishi will have my heart always. I recently had my closest dealer close and I am now forced to travel only about 15 more minutes to get all my OEM parts. I will continue to go to that dealer until it closes and I will support Mitsubishi with other car purchases in the future. (not an Evo X, I have a IX that I will not get rid of)
Mitsubishi builds a great product.
How many car companies build cars that just make you want to go for a drive? No destination, just go. Toyota doesn't anymore, Honda has the S2000, Nissan has the 350z, Subaru has the STi.
I'm just gonna come out and say it. Most of the Evo owners I've met in the Metro DC are are tools. There is no group support mentality amongst owners and everyone I've tried to talk to has a superiority complex. I work with cars everyday I come home and browse internet videos of cars. I go out and drive around to find back roads that are windy and scenic. Evo owners in this area are all over but there is no comradery amongst owners. I go to Supra meets and S2k meets all of the time and everyone is so good about helping each other and talking about specs, and mods and whatever comes up. It's always a good time. Evo owners go to misc. car meets and show off there cars and talk about what they have and that's it. Get over it. I bought my car because I have wanted every DSM ever made when they were made and I will never change as long as Mitsu is around. I'm not out here to impress you people. I love my car.
It starts with supporting each other. Then supporting your local dealer. Keeping it real amongst other DSM owners and not getting cocky when you take your car into a dealer with aftermarket parts on your car that weren't designed at an OEM level and something that's messed up because of it. Suck it up. My car came with a Hundred Thousand mile powertrain warranty on it. That means, a stock car is designed in theory to go a full 100,000 miles without having a single powertrain issue as long as maintenance is done correctly. I see so many people talking about "the dealer refused the warranty claim" well No S**t, I wouldn't either if I saw an aftermarket clutch and the trans. failed or a changed ECU programming that fried your engine. You wanted more than what they offered to you from the factory so why should the factory support your attempt to throw their masterpiece out of balance. Every car company does the same thing but for some reason I don't see those owners complaining.
Sorry about the rant, But I'm sure someone who's bitter about the product they drive will prove my point and support the reason why mitsubishi is slowly fading away by responding to this post directly. Stop Hating. I say go ahead and buy another car that you love and learn to hate it because of some stupid s**t.
DSM 4 Life
Peace
Jul 17, 2008, 05:06 PM
#73
Aftermarket parts had nothing to do with inferior rod and main bearings. I know of countless cases where the cars were completely stock and after general wear and tear over time, they went out. Mitsubishi set no recalls for it and by the time they did fail, you would be stuck on the side of the road looking for some support from your dealership and all they can say is sucks to be you...
Jul 17, 2008, 05:11 PM
#74
the reality of most who diss the mitsubishi brand are probably new to the evo scene and suddenly realized how great a car the evo is. Mostly poseurs who wants stature brand like bmw, mb, audi until they get to see what the evo is capable of. I can afford to buy a p-car but prefers the evo and anything mitsubishi.
I doubt the Evo gets many people who buy one as a status symbol. The kind of people you're trying to impress with a status symbol simply aren't impressed by a Mitsubishi. The people who buy Evos are pretty much interested in one thing at the sacrifice of all others: Performance.
Jul 17, 2008, 05:16 PM
#75
Well said. I've been from dsm to evo so I'm not some "new" kid. I know the type of service they offer and why not to go to them. That's why there are so many DIY'ers with the 4g63 platform because mainly we would just rather not deal with the dealership period.