Mitsubishi as a brand
Jul 17, 2008 | 06:47 PM
#76
First, the Hyundai/Kia comment. Most enthusiasts (like all of us) definitely will agree that Hyundai/Kia do not make a great car for guys like us. But, as an overall brand (which is what this thread is about), you can't argue with the fact that Hyundai sells nearly 4 times as many cars as Mitsu and Kia sells nearly 3 times as many. The general public is choosing Hyundai and Kia.
To your second point about posting the sales data. I simply post it for people to discuss. If I don't do it, someone else will. If you go back and check out those threads, you'll see that I stand up for the X despite it's perceived low sales numbers. If you like, I'm more than happy to stop contributing to the forum by posting the data. Just say the word.
For your last point about trying to find out where I'm coming from. Trust me on this...I'm pulling for Mitsu. I've been a fan since the Starion days
I've owned a 3000GT. I've owned an Eclipse GSX. I also owned an Evo IX. I spent several years of my career working at Mitsubishi's ad agency (Deutsch LA) in the early 2000s doing all the good advertising that everyone remembers (people dancing in the cars, all the great music, etc). I worked on the team that launched the Evo VIII in the US. I was one of the first people to drive it on US soil. Remember this commercial? It's one of mine... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sdcNVCrYro
I've spent countless days in the Cypress headquarters. Likely more than 99.9% of the people on this forum. I'm a Mitsubishi guy through and through. I sold my IX for an R32 and now I'm thinking about coming back to get an Evo X. But, overall for Mitsu as a company, I see the writing on the wall. I know the struggles they have internally. If you read the very end of my previous post, you'll see that I believe there is hope. Mazda is the perfect example (also worked for them as well and launched the Zoom-Zoom campaign). Mazda nearly left the US in the late 90s because they lost their way as a brand and built soulless cars that noone wanted to buy because the competitors had better cars. My team got Mazda to get back to their roots and start designing fun-to-drive cars that people actually wanted to buy. When I first started with Mazda, they were selling 150k-160k cars a year. They now sell well over 300k cars a year. Why was Mazda successful? They went back to the roots of the company and their core differentiators.
And all the talk about the dealership experience (this is not directed as you, Noize, since I think you get it)...I don't completely buy it. The grass isn't greener on the other side. Regardless of brand, the overwhelming majority of dealers are bad (except for Lexus who always scores #1 in dealership satifaction surveys). Did everyone know that Toyota is consistently rated as the worst dealership experience of any brand? But, that doesn't stop people from buying Toyota vehicles in record numbers. Why? Because Toyota builds cars, trucks and SUVs that people want. They want them so badly that they'll put up with a crappy dealership experience. Sound familiar to all us Evo guys? It is because we overlook the crappy dealership experience because we all want(ed) an Evo so badly the horrible service didn't deter us. Great product is king in the automotive industry. It cures ALL evils.
Anyhow, it can be done. Mitsu just needs to get back to making cars that people want and are differentiated enough from their competitors.
To your second point about posting the sales data. I simply post it for people to discuss. If I don't do it, someone else will. If you go back and check out those threads, you'll see that I stand up for the X despite it's perceived low sales numbers. If you like, I'm more than happy to stop contributing to the forum by posting the data. Just say the word.
For your last point about trying to find out where I'm coming from. Trust me on this...I'm pulling for Mitsu. I've been a fan since the Starion days
I've owned a 3000GT. I've owned an Eclipse GSX. I also owned an Evo IX. I spent several years of my career working at Mitsubishi's ad agency (Deutsch LA) in the early 2000s doing all the good advertising that everyone remembers (people dancing in the cars, all the great music, etc). I worked on the team that launched the Evo VIII in the US. I was one of the first people to drive it on US soil. Remember this commercial? It's one of mine... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sdcNVCrYroI've spent countless days in the Cypress headquarters. Likely more than 99.9% of the people on this forum. I'm a Mitsubishi guy through and through. I sold my IX for an R32 and now I'm thinking about coming back to get an Evo X. But, overall for Mitsu as a company, I see the writing on the wall. I know the struggles they have internally. If you read the very end of my previous post, you'll see that I believe there is hope. Mazda is the perfect example (also worked for them as well and launched the Zoom-Zoom campaign). Mazda nearly left the US in the late 90s because they lost their way as a brand and built soulless cars that noone wanted to buy because the competitors had better cars. My team got Mazda to get back to their roots and start designing fun-to-drive cars that people actually wanted to buy. When I first started with Mazda, they were selling 150k-160k cars a year. They now sell well over 300k cars a year. Why was Mazda successful? They went back to the roots of the company and their core differentiators.
And all the talk about the dealership experience (this is not directed as you, Noize, since I think you get it)...I don't completely buy it. The grass isn't greener on the other side. Regardless of brand, the overwhelming majority of dealers are bad (except for Lexus who always scores #1 in dealership satifaction surveys). Did everyone know that Toyota is consistently rated as the worst dealership experience of any brand? But, that doesn't stop people from buying Toyota vehicles in record numbers. Why? Because Toyota builds cars, trucks and SUVs that people want. They want them so badly that they'll put up with a crappy dealership experience. Sound familiar to all us Evo guys? It is because we overlook the crappy dealership experience because we all want(ed) an Evo so badly the horrible service didn't deter us. Great product is king in the automotive industry. It cures ALL evils.
Anyhow, it can be done. Mitsu just needs to get back to making cars that people want and are differentiated enough from their competitors.
Jul 17, 2008 | 06:57 PM
#77
Newbie
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: ATX
I dont understand, i've own 2 mitsus and i've loved them both zero problems except with the dealerships but that does not reflect on the car. Mitsu is doing better here in Texas than before and Pavilion is doing great in service and on evo 10 sales. I would much rather them listen to what the people want and create that but no company does thay anymore.
Jul 17, 2008 | 07:59 PM
#78
Evolving Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Mitsubishi has almost no brand recognition. Most people who see my car ask...
Them: "what kind of car is that"
Me: "a Mitsubishi"
Them: "oh" <long pause> "where do they sell those?"
I like mine alot, I just wish it weighed 500 lbs less.
Them: "what kind of car is that"
Me: "a Mitsubishi"
Them: "oh" <long pause> "where do they sell those?"
I like mine alot, I just wish it weighed 500 lbs less.
Jul 17, 2008 | 08:31 PM
#80
And all the talk about the dealership experience (this is not directed as you, Noize, since I think you get it)...I don't completely buy it. The grass isn't greener on the other side. Regardless of brand, the overwhelming majority of dealers are bad (except for Lexus who always scores #1 in dealership satifaction surveys). Did everyone know that Toyota is consistently rated as the worst dealership experience of any brand? But, that doesn't stop people from buying Toyota vehicles in record numbers. Why? Because Toyota builds cars, trucks and SUVs that people want. They want them so badly that they'll put up with a crappy dealership experience. Sound familiar to all us Evo guys? It is because we overlook the crappy dealership experience because we all want(ed) an Evo so badly the horrible service didn't deter us. Great product is king in the automotive industry. It cures ALL evils.
Audi = ****ty
Mercedes = ****ty
Nissan = ****ty
Ford = ****ty
Cadillac = ****ty
Mitsubishi = ****ty
Subaru = ****ty
Jaguar = ****ty
Porsche = ****ty
Volvo = ****ty
Seriously, only Lexus and two local exotic dealerships have been consistently awesome (I know a few people at other dealers, and obviously they're cool people, because I know them, the list above really does hit all dealers just didn't write them ALL down, since I shopped around for 6 months when selling the Evo, seriously hit every car brand)
It starts with supporting each other. Then supporting your local dealer. Keeping it real amongst other DSM owners and not getting cocky when you take your car into a dealer with aftermarket parts on your car that weren't designed at an OEM level and something that's messed up because of it. Suck it up. My car came with a Hundred Thousand mile powertrain warranty on it. That means, a stock car is designed in theory to go a full 100,000 miles without having a single powertrain issue as long as maintenance is done correctly. I see so many people talking about "the dealer refused the warranty claim" well No S**t, I wouldn't either if I saw an aftermarket clutch and the trans. failed or a changed ECU programming that fried your engine. You wanted more than what they offered to you from the factory so why should the factory support your attempt to throw their masterpiece out of balance. Every car company does the same thing but for some reason I don't see those owners complaining.
Sorry about the rant, But I'm sure someone who's bitter about the product they drive will prove my point and support the reason why mitsubishi is slowly fading away by responding to this post directly. Stop Hating. I say go ahead and buy another car that you love and learn to hate it because of some stupid s**t.
Sorry about the rant, But I'm sure someone who's bitter about the product they drive will prove my point and support the reason why mitsubishi is slowly fading away by responding to this post directly. Stop Hating. I say go ahead and buy another car that you love and learn to hate it because of some stupid s**t.
Jul 17, 2008 | 09:32 PM
#81
EvoM Community Team Leader
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 6
From: chicago, michigan, arkansas
Let's consider the other options in the same price range along with what the cars have to offer to the individual. Honda, Subaru, and Nissan. And I only say those three because, let's face it, Japanese cars are in very few ways beautiful works of art that everyone desires. Each company has it's modern day muscle with it's own offering to the JDM nuts out there. Each car company makes cheaper than most cars that out perform cars costing 2x as much. Cheap is the term I'll use because the materials involved in the making of these cars is lackluster at best. But they are put together very neatly.
I will cut to the chase. I am a DSM fan to the fullest. I enjoy all other makes for what they are. Mitsubishi will have my heart always. I recently had my closest dealer close and I am now forced to travel only about 15 more minutes to get all my OEM parts. I will continue to go to that dealer until it closes and I will support Mitsubishi with other car purchases in the future. (not an Evo X, I have a IX that I will not get rid of)
Mitsubishi builds a great product.
How many car companies build cars that just make you want to go for a drive? No destination, just go. Toyota doesn't anymore, Honda has the S2000, Nissan has the 350z, Subaru has the STi.
I'm just gonna come out and say it. Most of the Evo owners I've met in the Metro DC are are tools. There is no group support mentality amongst owners and everyone I've tried to talk to has a superiority complex. I work with cars everyday I come home and browse internet videos of cars. I go out and drive around to find back roads that are windy and scenic. Evo owners in this area are all over but there is no comradery amongst owners. I go to Supra meets and S2k meets all of the time and everyone is so good about helping each other and talking about specs, and mods and whatever comes up. It's always a good time. Evo owners go to misc. car meets and show off there cars and talk about what they have and that's it. Get over it. I bought my car because I have wanted every DSM ever made when they were made and I will never change as long as Mitsu is around. I'm not out here to impress you people. I love my car.
It starts with supporting each other. Then supporting your local dealer. Keeping it real amongst other DSM owners and not getting cocky when you take your car into a dealer with aftermarket parts on your car that weren't designed at an OEM level and something that's messed up because of it. Suck it up. My car came with a Hundred Thousand mile powertrain warranty on it. That means, a stock car is designed in theory to go a full 100,000 miles without having a single powertrain issue as long as maintenance is done correctly. I see so many people talking about "the dealer refused the warranty claim" well No S**t, I wouldn't either if I saw an aftermarket clutch and the trans. failed or a changed ECU programming that fried your engine. You wanted more than what they offered to you from the factory so why should the factory support your attempt to throw their masterpiece out of balance. Every car company does the same thing but for some reason I don't see those owners complaining.
Sorry about the rant, But I'm sure someone who's bitter about the product they drive will prove my point and support the reason why mitsubishi is slowly fading away by responding to this post directly. Stop Hating. I say go ahead and buy another car that you love and learn to hate it because of some stupid s**t.
DSM 4 Life
Peace
I will cut to the chase. I am a DSM fan to the fullest. I enjoy all other makes for what they are. Mitsubishi will have my heart always. I recently had my closest dealer close and I am now forced to travel only about 15 more minutes to get all my OEM parts. I will continue to go to that dealer until it closes and I will support Mitsubishi with other car purchases in the future. (not an Evo X, I have a IX that I will not get rid of)
Mitsubishi builds a great product.
How many car companies build cars that just make you want to go for a drive? No destination, just go. Toyota doesn't anymore, Honda has the S2000, Nissan has the 350z, Subaru has the STi.
I'm just gonna come out and say it. Most of the Evo owners I've met in the Metro DC are are tools. There is no group support mentality amongst owners and everyone I've tried to talk to has a superiority complex. I work with cars everyday I come home and browse internet videos of cars. I go out and drive around to find back roads that are windy and scenic. Evo owners in this area are all over but there is no comradery amongst owners. I go to Supra meets and S2k meets all of the time and everyone is so good about helping each other and talking about specs, and mods and whatever comes up. It's always a good time. Evo owners go to misc. car meets and show off there cars and talk about what they have and that's it. Get over it. I bought my car because I have wanted every DSM ever made when they were made and I will never change as long as Mitsu is around. I'm not out here to impress you people. I love my car.
It starts with supporting each other. Then supporting your local dealer. Keeping it real amongst other DSM owners and not getting cocky when you take your car into a dealer with aftermarket parts on your car that weren't designed at an OEM level and something that's messed up because of it. Suck it up. My car came with a Hundred Thousand mile powertrain warranty on it. That means, a stock car is designed in theory to go a full 100,000 miles without having a single powertrain issue as long as maintenance is done correctly. I see so many people talking about "the dealer refused the warranty claim" well No S**t, I wouldn't either if I saw an aftermarket clutch and the trans. failed or a changed ECU programming that fried your engine. You wanted more than what they offered to you from the factory so why should the factory support your attempt to throw their masterpiece out of balance. Every car company does the same thing but for some reason I don't see those owners complaining.
Sorry about the rant, But I'm sure someone who's bitter about the product they drive will prove my point and support the reason why mitsubishi is slowly fading away by responding to this post directly. Stop Hating. I say go ahead and buy another car that you love and learn to hate it because of some stupid s**t.
DSM 4 Life
Peace
Jul 17, 2008 | 09:35 PM
#82
i have owned honda, nisssan, mercedez, bmw..
as far as the services goes, mitsu ain't that bad.
hondas and bmws are the worst. they are like a mosquitos..
they try to suck out blood from you as much as they can.
mercedes... by far has the best service for my experience. although it gets real expensive once the warrenty runs out. sell the car before it run out..
but again.. i can't really judge about anything yet since i only had this evo for 2 weeks now..
but my stock deck is already ucked up, got a rock chip on my qrt panel, and the check engine light flashed me twice for no reason.. and it is completely stock and nothing s touched yet.. so a little questionable as for the quality..
in japan, mitsubishi is 4th best selling company out of over 20 great automobile companies.. for some reason... in US... one of the worst selling japanese automobile company..... I wonder why
as far as the services goes, mitsu ain't that bad.
hondas and bmws are the worst. they are like a mosquitos..
they try to suck out blood from you as much as they can.
mercedes... by far has the best service for my experience. although it gets real expensive once the warrenty runs out. sell the car before it run out..
but again.. i can't really judge about anything yet since i only had this evo for 2 weeks now..
but my stock deck is already ucked up, got a rock chip on my qrt panel, and the check engine light flashed me twice for no reason.. and it is completely stock and nothing s touched yet.. so a little questionable as for the quality..
in japan, mitsubishi is 4th best selling company out of over 20 great automobile companies.. for some reason... in US... one of the worst selling japanese automobile company..... I wonder why
Jul 17, 2008 | 09:35 PM
#83
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
You guys are completely forgetting what makes a company rich and successful.
Honda - Civic, Accord, now Fit
Toyota - Corolla, Camry, now Yaris
Nissan - Sentra, Altima
Hyundai - Sonata, Accent
How does Gallant and base Lancer fare against these competitions? It seems Mitsubishi will have horrible timing on bringing 'Mitsubishi i' if they are bringing them at all.
You see my point?
For companies like these to stay strong, they need to be competitive if not dominating in the areas that produce most revenue/profit.
All these companies are car companies that happens to make performance cars (well except Hyundai as of yet) in a small scale mostly for marketing purposes, rather than to earn profit. Most car companies know that betting to earn profit from their sports/performance lines is a ridiculous idea, it may happen, but the chances are close to nil.
Unfortunately not many companies that are purely performance cars based that may possibly make some 'standard' cars don't do too well financially without help:
Ferarri - Fiat
Porsche - VW
Lamborghini - VW
Lotus - Proton
Bugatti - VW
Aston Martin - Ford
Sure some of them still make respectable profit but if these car companies were to operate by themselves again, they will no longer have shared technology, shared parts bin, anything that follows economies of scale (legal, financial terms that needs to be set up etc). Would they still be able to make profits?
As for customer service, unfortunately in the real world, as long as they are 'adequate', then it is pointless for company to spent more. Otherwise Saturn would be the most profitable company right now. To the rest of 99% of the consumers, warrantying or not warrantying cosmetic flaws is irrelevant.
Mitsubishi as a whole (including bank, steel, etc, yes they make everything) was not doing too well past two decades. They are still gigantic though.
Honda - Civic, Accord, now Fit
Toyota - Corolla, Camry, now Yaris
Nissan - Sentra, Altima
Hyundai - Sonata, Accent
How does Gallant and base Lancer fare against these competitions? It seems Mitsubishi will have horrible timing on bringing 'Mitsubishi i' if they are bringing them at all.
You see my point?
For companies like these to stay strong, they need to be competitive if not dominating in the areas that produce most revenue/profit.
All these companies are car companies that happens to make performance cars (well except Hyundai as of yet) in a small scale mostly for marketing purposes, rather than to earn profit. Most car companies know that betting to earn profit from their sports/performance lines is a ridiculous idea, it may happen, but the chances are close to nil.
Unfortunately not many companies that are purely performance cars based that may possibly make some 'standard' cars don't do too well financially without help:
Ferarri - Fiat
Porsche - VW
Lamborghini - VW
Lotus - Proton
Bugatti - VW
Aston Martin - Ford
Sure some of them still make respectable profit but if these car companies were to operate by themselves again, they will no longer have shared technology, shared parts bin, anything that follows economies of scale (legal, financial terms that needs to be set up etc). Would they still be able to make profits?
As for customer service, unfortunately in the real world, as long as they are 'adequate', then it is pointless for company to spent more. Otherwise Saturn would be the most profitable company right now. To the rest of 99% of the consumers, warrantying or not warrantying cosmetic flaws is irrelevant.
Mitsubishi as a whole (including bank, steel, etc, yes they make everything) was not doing too well past two decades. They are still gigantic though.
Jul 17, 2008 | 09:47 PM
#84
here in my city the cars that sell the most are mitsubishi ive owned 3 of them including an evo and i have never had a single problem with them
yes the dealership is a lazy but they aint that bad
ive owned in the past several bmws which in my case i had a very bad experiece with this cars and the dealer wasnt that good at all.
yes the dealership is a lazy but they aint that bad
ive owned in the past several bmws which in my case i had a very bad experiece with this cars and the dealer wasnt that good at all.
Jul 17, 2008 | 10:01 PM
#85
I think it would help if Mitsu would focus on cars people want AND the dealership experience. I usually get worse service at most Mitsu dealers unless the guy in charge is an Evo enthusiast. I've been to Mitsu dealers all over the country and they are sorely lacking in buying experience and customer service.
I think the Lancer and the Outlander are decent cars, but Mitsu needs to come up with some innovative cars to survive. The galant needs to be replaced with something eye catching. It might also be a good time in the market to bring a new MPV like the Mazda5, a hyrbrid or Miev, maybe the Colt? What do you guys think?
I think the Lancer and the Outlander are decent cars, but Mitsu needs to come up with some innovative cars to survive. The galant needs to be replaced with something eye catching. It might also be a good time in the market to bring a new MPV like the Mazda5, a hyrbrid or Miev, maybe the Colt? What do you guys think?
Jul 17, 2008 | 10:38 PM
#86
Evolving Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
From: Costa Rica
The situation of the mitsu brand is different throught the world
Maybe in USA they are struggling, with people barely recognizing the mitsu brand and their cars, but where I live, is different.
Everyone knows what a mitsubishi is, no matter if they like it or not, they are aware of their existence and the cars they produce.
There are plenty of big sellers of mitsubishi here, especially the most famous of all , the Montero (pajero) , which with the "new" gen they have been selling pretty darn well and u see plenty of them everyday on the road. Many people like it. (I dont haha)
L200 is selling well, even thou it competes with the hilux , u see lots of them as well.
Why? Because they both are all new.
Montero sports, which were discontinued as well in the usa market, are still selling here, and even thou I know they are quite old tech and platform, other people might not, and they are some new on the road.
The lancer? Well, plenty of new lancers on the road (mostly ES models), but I have seen so far more lancers than new corollas (but for sure corolla is selling more I guess)
So mitsu here is famous because of his SUV lineup and the lancer.
Maybe in USA they are struggling, with people barely recognizing the mitsu brand and their cars, but where I live, is different.
Everyone knows what a mitsubishi is, no matter if they like it or not, they are aware of their existence and the cars they produce.
There are plenty of big sellers of mitsubishi here, especially the most famous of all , the Montero (pajero) , which with the "new" gen they have been selling pretty darn well and u see plenty of them everyday on the road. Many people like it. (I dont haha)
L200 is selling well, even thou it competes with the hilux , u see lots of them as well.
Why? Because they both are all new.
Montero sports, which were discontinued as well in the usa market, are still selling here, and even thou I know they are quite old tech and platform, other people might not, and they are some new on the road.
The lancer? Well, plenty of new lancers on the road (mostly ES models), but I have seen so far more lancers than new corollas (but for sure corolla is selling more I guess)
So mitsu here is famous because of his SUV lineup and the lancer.
Jul 18, 2008 | 04:40 AM
#87
The situation of the mitsu brand is different throught the world
Maybe in USA they are struggling, with people barely recognizing the mitsu brand and their cars, but where I live, is different.
Everyone knows what a mitsubishi is, no matter if they like it or not, they are aware of their existence and the cars they produce.
There are plenty of big sellers of mitsubishi here, especially the most famous of all , the Montero (pajero) , which with the "new" gen they have been selling pretty darn well and u see plenty of them everyday on the road. Many people like it. (I dont haha)
L200 is selling well, even thou it competes with the hilux , u see lots of them as well.
Why? Because they both are all new.
Montero sports, which were discontinued as well in the usa market, are still selling here, and even thou I know they are quite old tech and platform, other people might not, and they are some new on the road.
The lancer? Well, plenty of new lancers on the road (mostly ES models), but I have seen so far more lancers than new corollas (but for sure corolla is selling more I guess)
So mitsu here is famous because of his SUV lineup and the lancer.
Maybe in USA they are struggling, with people barely recognizing the mitsu brand and their cars, but where I live, is different.
Everyone knows what a mitsubishi is, no matter if they like it or not, they are aware of their existence and the cars they produce.
There are plenty of big sellers of mitsubishi here, especially the most famous of all , the Montero (pajero) , which with the "new" gen they have been selling pretty darn well and u see plenty of them everyday on the road. Many people like it. (I dont haha)
L200 is selling well, even thou it competes with the hilux , u see lots of them as well.
Why? Because they both are all new.
Montero sports, which were discontinued as well in the usa market, are still selling here, and even thou I know they are quite old tech and platform, other people might not, and they are some new on the road.
The lancer? Well, plenty of new lancers on the road (mostly ES models), but I have seen so far more lancers than new corollas (but for sure corolla is selling more I guess)
So mitsu here is famous because of his SUV lineup and the lancer.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...8/ai_n26624593
Jul 18, 2008 | 06:00 AM
#89
The Pajero is a monster of a machine. It can hang right with a Range Rover without breaking a sweat. The Pajero is to the Range Rover, as the Evo is to a super car...same level of performance for less than half the cost
It's weird. Mitsu has great cars (e.g., Pajero, Colt) that people would actually buy...they just don't happen to sell them in the
Just doesn't make sense 
Jul 18, 2008 | 06:25 AM
#90
At any rate, just wanted to say lots of good discussion here... read everything up from my last post yesterday and have little more to add... it's all been covered pretty thoroughly.
...though I am still not loyal to any one brand... I am only loyal to value; price
erformance 