I think it's about the cars people want as well. I also noticed you mentioned the Mazda5 in your comparison. My wife has a Mazda5 and I think it's pretty innovative, as well as a car that others seem to want. Actually, if Mazda had built a Mazda5 with the Mazdaspeed6 AWD turbocharged drivetrain, I would have bought that instead of the Evo. Mitsubishi, as well as the other brands, would do good to bring thier Mazda5 equivalents over here. Every day I notice more and more of the Mazda5's on the roads, and I suspect it's because it's a smaller minivan style vehicle, that comfortably seats six adults, is relatively fuel efficient, and drives and handles pretty well. Our 5 speed Mazda5 "Sport" edition (or whatever it's called) was like $16.2k out the door, gets 29 mpg, seats six, and came standard with all the options that Toyota or Honda charged extra for on thier cars (power windows, cruise control, 6 disc changer, etc). Every time friends / co-workers ride in the Mazda, they are always saying how unique it is because it's a small but has the practicality of a larger minivan.

I see more and more of these cars every day. My evo is the only evo10 I've ever seen on the road. I've seen one other non evo Lancer since I bought the evo.

 

"We didn't just build a car, We made a religion"
i totally agree with that
i've been an avid mitsubishi fan ever since
have had a mirage and now a lancer OZ
probably an EVO someday
mitsu dealers in my area are just awesome in service
the only thing that bothers me is the fact that one mitsu dealer merge with another one.

 

You're totally right, except for the bolded part...

Porsche does not use VW for any financial gain and is not backed by VW/Audi at all other than a little bit of part/tech sharing... Porsche simply owns ~31% of VWs stocks (thus holding the controlling share, since all the other shares are less than 31%). Porsche is the ONLY performanced based company that is not only surviving financially, but is thriving. I think that this is because they have good cars that fill in all the higher priced niches thanks to all the different options available.

 

UT_Evo, from my understanding, part of the reason that Porsche is trying to get more VW is so that they can use VW cars to offset Porsche cars for emissions/CAFE reasons (otherwise they are going to get HAMMERED over the next few years with gas guzzler taxes).

Isn't there a VW law in Germany that's making the takeover even harder?

 

Dude those Mitsubishi Colts look like luxury cars. I had seen them when I was stationed in England, they need to bring those over.....Bring the Pajaro/Montero back and get rid of that ugly Endeavor. Redesign the Galant and make a new Diamante. Oh yeah, get rid of that Raider also and bring out the L200 or 300 series trucks that they have over in Europe...

 

There is indeed some sort of law that is making the purchase for Porsche harder, they are trying to move from 31% to 51%. They started the process back in March but European and a few other regulators have to approve it, which is expected to last a few months.

The reason you stated is totally possible (though I know it isn't because they need streamline cars to pull in more money, which is the point anyway) But what I had heard is that they wanted to get their hands in VW as much (and therefore Audi/VW/Bugatti/Lamborghini etc) in order to prevent someone else from purchasing and using German technology secrets. I'm pretty sure this was some lame rumor. All it seems Porsche has said is that A) They don't plan on merging the two companies at all and B) They plan on taking VW up and trying to compete on the same level as Toyota.

A quote from one article "Porsche is saying that owning a majority stake in VW will not result in the two companies combining, creating a German mega-automaker of biblical proportions. " The only thing that seems confirmed other than the above two points is that they will be sharing much more technology. (Cayenne is looking like it will get a VW diesel soon after)

I don't know how the gas guzzler taxes work for companies, but I know that most of the Porsche line gets great gas mileage. I get better city/fwy mileage in the C4 than I did the Evo... The Cayman and Boxster are almost good enough that I'd consider them reasonable on gas. (20/30 mpg)

 

I just have to say 1 thing on this. My mitsu dealer must be unlike any other. Any time I have went in for service (for something strange) or even to get a part that I knew I broke... my dealer has covered it under warranty, even with seeing all the mods on my car. Hell after I put my springs on (had an alignment right after at the dealer), they even warrantied my strut mounts at 40,000 miles.... AFTER the warranty expired. I never pay the $98 diag fee, nor the dealer service labor rate. I have always been treated well, and will own only Mitsubishis as long as this dealer is around.

 

caring about mitsubishi? Ha, good one.

 

The new CAFE regulations call for fuel economy standards to be based upon the footprint of the car. Since Porsche makes relatively small footprint cars they will be held to a higher fuel economy standard than other brands that make larger cars.

 

Sorry if mitsu is doing bad in car sales, but none of that matters regarding my post. We all know mitsu in the usa is struggling, and even more so in the area where u live. (if thats the case)
My post was about the mitsu brand and how their brand perception changes in different parts of the world, and how different models are sold, and how they sell in my country according to which I see on the road.
I believe the 08 montero has been selling so well cause the toyota prado is old, no noticeable changes since their last redesign, 03 model year.

By the way, has anyone seen the new montero sport? man,that sucks!

I have no loyalty to any vehicle brand, I just buy the car that I liked the most in every aspect.

 

Couple of years ago, the Montero was such a dream car for me.
I watch every year the rally dakar, and well....it was so inspiring for me.
Watching the tv ads of the montero.....the music....
I loved every win, enjoyed every moment, how volkswagen touaregs came close but in the end....ha! Won!
I care about those moments, even thou now I dont own a montero, cause I think another brand and model offers what I like know.

 

Really, can you show me something to support that statement? As a Nissan guy, I don't typically go on other web forums and stir the hornet's nest, but you are way off base. The VQ has been out since 95, and has made Ward's Top 10 best engines list EVERY year. It is the only engine to make the list every year (they happened to start the list the same year the VQ came out).

http://wardsauto.com/reports/2008/te...ssan_3-7l_v-6/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward's_10_Best_Engines

Don't get me wrong, I think the Evo is a great car (or I wouldn't be on here, or thinking about buying one). Statements like that make me have are hard time buying your argument though. I understand that you are biased, but the automotive world has continued to recongnize the VQ as a great engine, and not just recently.

I should also mention that the 4G63 and the 4B11 have never made the list. The early (US) 4G63 engines, while capable of making power, were plauged with problems. I personally think the 4G63 is a great engine and deserves mention with the likes of the RB26DETT, the SR20DET, the VQ, the B and K series Honda engines, BMW N and S lines, and the 2JZ Toyota engines, but the fact is outside of the tuner community it has not been viewed that way.

That leads me to my next point. Mitsu has one steller car, and it is esentially a niche car. Selling 400 cars a month of your best car is not going to keep the doors open. You have to ask yourself why they can't sell more Evos. To me it is obvious. With the price of Evo's you are in BMW, Audi, Infiniti, and Lexus territory. As it has been pointed out by just about everyone on here, you are going to get better service and a better experience at just about any other dealership. At some point that outweighs the benefit of the performance the Evo brings. I think the Ford's and Chevy's of the world have the same problem. It pains me to say that. My family owns 3 Ford dealerships (including the 3rd oldest in the US), but their products and services stink in most cases. One great car is not going to fix all those problems.

I really want to buy an Evo X, but I am also considering a BMW 335i or an Inifiniti G37 sedan (the 2009 sedan will have the VQ37). I would be all over the Evo if I did not have to deal with all the things mentioned in the 7 pages of this thread. If it wasn't for the Evo, Mitsu would be completely irrelevant in the US market (which is sad, because they used to make some cool cars).

 

I don't think mitsubishi is included to join the best engine per se. They were the first ones to develop the gdi engine and did it belong to best engine category? no! Now, most technology is into direct injection. They new 2009 997 is updated with direct injection technology. They developed the AYC, ACD and torque vectoring and was it ever mentioned by Bill Visnic? no! Like you said your family owns the big 3 dealerships and their magazine of choice would be wards. I remember the name Bill Visnic because he touted the torque vectoring by Acura and Audi to be the first of its kind and the AYC, etc.(blah,blah,blah). Guess what, it has been standard since 1992 with the evo II-evoIX. Need I mention the 2JZ's and the likes you mentioned? So, I hate to say it but the wards auto engine award is a patronizing award to those editors as to who they want to award it to. I don't know if they awarded the prius engine an award because that should get one.

 

I somewhat agree with the Ward's statement. Unfortunately, most automotive journalism falls into that catagory these days. Look at all the import mags; you think they are unbiased (this is not really a question). Where do their project cars, parts, and advertising come from? Ward's was just the easiest thing for me to find. The VQ has been praised and awarded by far more than just Ward's.

Just so I don't come accross as totally biased myself, the VQ is by no means a perfect engine. It is a little rough in spots. Lackluster is just not a word that I have heard used to describe it. Maybe boring, reliable, not the highest horsepower, hard to work on, but never lackluster. It is a very linear motor in terms of power delivery (both HP and TQ), that doesn't get a rise out of people like a high-reving T/C enigne.

When people complain about Nissan's, and I have a lot of complaints, it is usually not about the VQ itself (Nissan has some pretty crappy interiors, transmissions, paint, service and quality in spots). I am not some total Nissan fanboy, but the VQ is a good engine.

I personally think the 4G63 used in the Evo deserves mention with the top engines. I also think Mitsu has pioneered a lot of technology that other companies have emulated over the years. A lot of that came from the Evo, it was and is a leader in technology. The jury is still out on the 4B11. It seems like a good engine. I would like to see them (and Nissan for that matter) use DI. I think the bump in compression and effeciency is pretty awsome. It is one thing I can't believe we are not seeing more of now.

The Prius engine made this list, as did a few other hybrid engines. It actually made the Ward's list as early as 2001. The 2JZ (in any variety) did not make the list. I agree with about 80% of the entries, the VQ being one of them.... Don't take this as me bashing Mitsu and saying Nissan is so much better. I just took exception to that one statement.

I will quit my rant, as talking about Nissan's VQ is completely off topic from the original post. As far as the original topic goes, I think Mitsu has a lot of work to do. I don't think one great car makes a company/brand. Nissan was really saved by the 350Z, but they followed it up with other cars. The Titan, Altima, G35, FX, Murano, and M are all good cars. When the Z came out all Nissan had was a crappy Maxima (other than the VQ--booo), a Mini-van, an OK Sentra, and the entire Infiniti line was really weak. The way to build the brand (are you listening MMNA) is to put out your iconic car, and build around it. You should not expect that one iconic car to carry and build your brand (as the OP suggested). If anything, that is where MMNA should follow Nissan's lead. Sorry, I think MMNA is a huge failure for the most part.

Hey MMNA, kudos for one great car. Now pull your head out of your a$$ and make some other great cars, and get a dealer network that knows what the word customer service means. Then I will tip my hat and say good job.... Until then, they will be just a one trick pony. MMNA can come back, but putting out one car won't save the brand. You only need to look at companies like Audi and Nissan to what can happen with a good effort. A product line that consists of the Endevor, Galant, Eclipse, and Lancer is not what I would call a good effort.

 

If you look closely, you'll see that the Evo sections in these forums comprise a largely unabashed performance car site. The Ward's 10 Best Engines list highlights several types of engines, and takes several things that performance purists don't give a toss about.

A great example that Ward's doesn't value performance above all things are their two four cylinder winners. The Audi FSI, while fuel efficient, isn't the pinnacle of performance. While the new TTS engine is upping the game a bit, its hardly in the league with other choices out there for aftermarket potential. The Mazda MZR being included is just laughable to me. Its a well known truth that engine can't even sustain 300whp without putting a rod through the block. I've seen two of them do it locally, properly tuned and knock free. The 4G63 and 4B11 obliterate these engines when comparing power potential.

To address the VQ, the first iteration of it was tepid, didn't like to rev, and responded in a very lackluster to NA bolt on modifications. It didn't belong as Nissan's (then) halo car for the USA in my opinion, often needing cold autumn air and a tailwind to knock off a high 13 second quarter mile and to break 102mph convincingly. The revup was better, and the HR is substantially better, but the weight goes up too, and we're still stuck with an engine that hovers is the uber high 13s/low 14s stock and not much hop up potential unless you go forced induction. Prepare to shell out thousands of dollars to make a VQ powered car do what a 4G63 can do with mere hundreds. There are some wickedly fast VQs out there, but none of them are all motor.

Ward's further loses me by awarding the Ford 4.6 as an award winner when the GM LS2 and LS7 are infinitely more exciting engines. Again, you're looking at a group of guys who use a law of averages and highly subjective opinions to come up with winners. In short, that Ward's list blows goats for performance car guys.

And to your last point, IMO the 335i is the best car of the three you are looking at. I had a 335i before my X and miss it deeply. I have plotted ways to get into a 135i and even have my car for sale right now. I love my car and might wait it out, or I might trade it in. I don't think the G37 belongs in that list at all. It is cheaper than the 335i, but offers faux luxury in comparison, and performance potential nowhere near the other cars. If you want a luxury car with some *****, get the Bimmer, because N54 > VQ by a lot. If you want an unabashed track star for super cheap and don't mind the lack of dash molestablility, get the X.