View Poll Results: Have you had issues with fuel starvation at the track?
Yes
41
33.61%
No
20
16.39%
Haven't been to the track yet, so not sure...
61
50.00%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll
Ams Fuel Surge Tank
Jan 5, 2009, 09:41 AM
#46
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I don't disagree with you (I see it all the time) and I don't beleive I was making it seem like it was epidemic, I did not mean to come across that way. I was speaking from personal experience and it happened on street tires with a half tank. I would just hate to see something bad happen from fuel starvation. I could have been more specefic with what I was refering to. I can see it being a much larger issue for the hardcore track guys.
I don't think you're lucky; your track probably doesn't have any high speed left hand sweepers. It really does only seem to be the higher speed left handers that cause the problem as I've had no problem with the slower corners.
As for the surge tank solution: I can't see myself running this in my daily driver....
As for the surge tank solution: I can't see myself running this in my daily driver....
Yes, thinking back, the tracks I've run on do not have any long, high speed left handed sweepers. Maybe that's why I've been lucky.
Great solution for those experiencing problems.
Apr 24, 2009, 01:58 PM
#52
I'm interested as well since I would rather just upgrade my fuel pump once with this setup than mess around with in tank adapters for the Evo X. Watkins Glen seems to be mostly lower speed left handers and is a right handed course but I don't want to push my luck. The only times I've noticed my TurboXS knocklight flicker slightly was exiting the turn 10 off camber left hander. It's more than a 90 degree turn and it has me thinking that the fuel was losing pressure in the rail and about to cut out. Please tell me you guys are close to releasing an official kit for the Evo X!
Last edited by Hiboost; Apr 24, 2009 at 02:03 PM.
May 5, 2009, 04:59 PM
#54
Some ideas
I'm pretty sure this would be active all the time since you couldn't pressurize the fuel rail with just the factory pump feeding through the surge tank, the pressure would bleed back into the gas tank via the overflow line.
Ok some brainstorming here:
I know the "Walbro 255 LPH HP" fuel pumps are rather noisy, what are other alternatives even if they are double the cost but quieter? Maybe two "Walbro 255 LPH OEM" fuel pumps? Looks like 2 of the regular pumps would do 50-60 GPH at 70 PSI (~40 psi fuel pressure plus 30 PSI boost). May be trouble for higher boost levels though.
http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/walbro.htm
Also another thought was most are only getting fuel starvation on left turns where the fuel sloshes to the passenger side. I haven't looked at how the stock fuel pump pickup is setup but couldn't you center it more to balance the starvation and hopefully hold it off a little longer?
Lastly, much fuel is being returned through the return line when at part throttle, would it be enough to fill a small in tank reservoir that had one way valves of some sort that would let fuel in easily but restrict the flow outwards? You could mount the pickup inside that assuming there was some sort of way to anchor it down. Just some ideas...
Here is what the STi cars have:
http://tuspeed.com/store5/fuel-anti-...ank-p-644.html
Ok some brainstorming here:
I know the "Walbro 255 LPH HP" fuel pumps are rather noisy, what are other alternatives even if they are double the cost but quieter? Maybe two "Walbro 255 LPH OEM" fuel pumps? Looks like 2 of the regular pumps would do 50-60 GPH at 70 PSI (~40 psi fuel pressure plus 30 PSI boost). May be trouble for higher boost levels though.
http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/walbro.htm
Also another thought was most are only getting fuel starvation on left turns where the fuel sloshes to the passenger side. I haven't looked at how the stock fuel pump pickup is setup but couldn't you center it more to balance the starvation and hopefully hold it off a little longer?
Lastly, much fuel is being returned through the return line when at part throttle, would it be enough to fill a small in tank reservoir that had one way valves of some sort that would let fuel in easily but restrict the flow outwards? You could mount the pickup inside that assuming there was some sort of way to anchor it down. Just some ideas...
Here is what the STi cars have:
http://tuspeed.com/store5/fuel-anti-...ank-p-644.html
Last edited by Hiboost; May 5, 2009 at 05:02 PM.
Aug 17, 2009, 08:37 AM
#56
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Hi, was just wondering if anyone had any more info on when this will be available as it resolves exactly the problem I have been experiencing on my track days - i've not seen any updates on AMS's website yet tho!
Aug 17, 2009, 12:41 PM
#57
Last I heard this was put on hold due to the assembly having to be inside the cabin between the trunk and back seats raising safety concerns. I'll let AMS confirm as perhaps I misread it, Ill see what I can dig up.
If they do scrap it then possibly taking another angle at this would be to come out with a larger capacity fuel tank that incorporated the reduction in fuel starvation in the fuel pump assembly design. Even though I managed over 350 miles and over 29 MPG to the shootout this year, having an extra 3-5 gallon capacity would extend range to 450-500 miles if you kept speeds around 70 mph.
Extending the fuel tank 1-2 inches lower would require you to also modify the fuel pump assembly to stay lower in the tank to accomodate that change and pickup the fuel at lower levels. From some basic research it seems that anyone could get a tank custom made to those specs but the question would be cost. Integrating a swirl pot around the fuel pickup area with the new tank would make this worth the money if it were to cost in the $800-$1200 range in my book.
If they do scrap it then possibly taking another angle at this would be to come out with a larger capacity fuel tank that incorporated the reduction in fuel starvation in the fuel pump assembly design. Even though I managed over 350 miles and over 29 MPG to the shootout this year, having an extra 3-5 gallon capacity would extend range to 450-500 miles if you kept speeds around 70 mph.
Extending the fuel tank 1-2 inches lower would require you to also modify the fuel pump assembly to stay lower in the tank to accomodate that change and pickup the fuel at lower levels. From some basic research it seems that anyone could get a tank custom made to those specs but the question would be cost. Integrating a swirl pot around the fuel pickup area with the new tank would make this worth the money if it were to cost in the $800-$1200 range in my book.
Aug 18, 2009, 02:01 PM
#59
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I wanted to do this since I'm doing heavy fuel system work for E85 anyway. Last I checked, AMS is not recommending this for use in a street driven vehical and there are some liability concerns. I decided instead to try an in-tank Walbro HP and a suplemental in-line Walbro HP. AMS will be tuning it next week. This won't address the starvation issue, but I have yet to see that with the stock pump and FPRed autocrossing and on the slower tracks I run. I'll be watching this one close though to make sure the higher fuel flow doesn't compound the issue.
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