Icy Road Warning
Nov 19, 2008, 12:50 PM
#16
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No problems at all. Its simply a warning just like the low tire pressure warning. This is nothing special either. My girlfriend's 2005 Nissan Sentra gives the same warning.
Nov 19, 2008, 02:35 PM
#17
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It's only annoying because it provides no benefit. It usually goes off as part of the startup procedure. It doesn't require you to clear it (thankfully), so when it stays cold it's now just another thing the car does when it starts up and you are trained to ignore it.
Assuming the sensors are accurate enough, and since they're controlling torque they probably are, detecting actual slippery conditions would be far more beneficial. The temperature sensor could help determine if its due to dirt/rain, or snow/ice, and alert as necessary. In the vast majority of cases, slippery conditions are encountered long before the car has a chance to get out of control, but these conditions are not always easily-discernable by the driver. That is the case where a warning notice would be beneficial, and since it's not going off literally every time you get in the car, you're more likely to actually pay attention.
Anyway, at least I know it's not malfunctioning by going off all the time.
Assuming the sensors are accurate enough, and since they're controlling torque they probably are, detecting actual slippery conditions would be far more beneficial. The temperature sensor could help determine if its due to dirt/rain, or snow/ice, and alert as necessary. In the vast majority of cases, slippery conditions are encountered long before the car has a chance to get out of control, but these conditions are not always easily-discernable by the driver. That is the case where a warning notice would be beneficial, and since it's not going off literally every time you get in the car, you're more likely to actually pay attention.
Anyway, at least I know it's not malfunctioning by going off all the time.
Nov 19, 2008, 03:01 PM
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If your car isn't slipping, it would be hard for it to notify you that you are in slippery conditions (dirt/rain, snow/ice). Without having some sort of sensor mounted near the wheels and dragging on the ground. And even then it would be a fairly advanced sensor, IMO, to tell the difference between cold ground, cold water, ice, and snow. Though, I admit, it would be handy for something to come up and say "You are driving on ____, conditions may be _____." So that you never have to even use the fancy stuff I'm about to talk about... But still, a sensor like that would probably be pretty advanced to detect slippery surfaces before you slip, even if it didn't detect the makeup of the surface (so, couldn't differentiate between dirt, snow, etc, just tell you it is poor conditions)
Otherwise, thank God your car DOES detect slippery conditions automatically when you start slipping, and I'm pretty sure the X even DOES tell you when it is slipping (in these cases, just like many other cars). It's called S-AWC, and the traction control/stability control/AWC/whatever it may be warning light. If your's doesn't do that, you should probably take it back... My girlfriend's Cavalier does that (albeit, not as good as your's should be doing it and without AWD, but still).
Granted, it can't determine if it is dirt, snow, ice, gravel, sand, small children, alcohol, oil spills, lava or otherwise unforseen events causing you to lose traction, but it can determine what tires have the most, what tires need more, and redirect power, torque, and braking automatically as needed. And I'm pretty sure that S-AWC can do even more than that... Hooray for modern traction and stability control coupled with one of the most advanced AWD systems.
Otherwise, thank God your car DOES detect slippery conditions automatically when you start slipping, and I'm pretty sure the X even DOES tell you when it is slipping (in these cases, just like many other cars). It's called S-AWC, and the traction control/stability control/AWC/whatever it may be warning light. If your's doesn't do that, you should probably take it back... My girlfriend's Cavalier does that (albeit, not as good as your's should be doing it and without AWD, but still).
Granted, it can't determine if it is dirt, snow, ice, gravel, sand, small children, alcohol, oil spills, lava or otherwise unforseen events causing you to lose traction, but it can determine what tires have the most, what tires need more, and redirect power, torque, and braking automatically as needed. And I'm pretty sure that S-AWC can do even more than that... Hooray for modern traction and stability control coupled with one of the most advanced AWD systems.
Last edited by UT_Evo; Nov 19, 2008 at 03:08 PM.
Nov 19, 2008, 03:45 PM
#20
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Like I said, slippery conditions will likely exist before you slip.
For example:
You come to a small patch of ice on the road. If you're applying power, the sensors that already exist may sense that a wheel slips slightly as it rolls over it, redistributing power elsewhere. S-AWC already does this, but I don't know how sensitive it is without knowing what sensors they're using (and they may be custom pieces anyway). It now knows the tire slipped under light acceleration (or simply maintaining a speed), so it can notify you the roads may be be icy if the temperature is below a certain temperature (they like 37*). For better accuracy, it can watch if the front tire slips, followed by the rear within a window of time determined by the current speed.
Now there's a big patch of slippery ice further down the road that you may slip on. You've been notified and had a chance to make a correction before that slip occurs... this is what I'm getting at. It's not that it is capable of seeing what's coming before it happens, it's using the fact that if a tire slipped here and it's cold enough, then it's statistically likely that the road has snow or ice on it and it will be encountered again at some later point in time. Sort of a "you survived this time, but be careful in the future" kind of thing. If you slip and crash on the first piece of slippery road you encounter, this system would do you no good, but the idea is that the probability of this occurring is low.
I dunno, I guess I can't turn my engineer off. The need to improve things invades everything. You can usually just ignore my crazy ideas, but I don't think this one is particularly far-fetched.
For example:
You come to a small patch of ice on the road. If you're applying power, the sensors that already exist may sense that a wheel slips slightly as it rolls over it, redistributing power elsewhere. S-AWC already does this, but I don't know how sensitive it is without knowing what sensors they're using (and they may be custom pieces anyway). It now knows the tire slipped under light acceleration (or simply maintaining a speed), so it can notify you the roads may be be icy if the temperature is below a certain temperature (they like 37*). For better accuracy, it can watch if the front tire slips, followed by the rear within a window of time determined by the current speed.
Now there's a big patch of slippery ice further down the road that you may slip on. You've been notified and had a chance to make a correction before that slip occurs... this is what I'm getting at. It's not that it is capable of seeing what's coming before it happens, it's using the fact that if a tire slipped here and it's cold enough, then it's statistically likely that the road has snow or ice on it and it will be encountered again at some later point in time. Sort of a "you survived this time, but be careful in the future" kind of thing. If you slip and crash on the first piece of slippery road you encounter, this system would do you no good, but the idea is that the probability of this occurring is low.
I dunno, I guess I can't turn my engineer off. The need to improve things invades everything. You can usually just ignore my crazy ideas, but I don't think this one is particularly far-fetched.
Last edited by gizmotoy; Nov 19, 2008 at 03:48 PM.
Nov 19, 2008, 04:06 PM
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No, what you're saying all makes sense, and I haven't personally driven an Evo with any sort of traction control in bad weather conditions (so mine never notified me, it just mechanically corrected for it. Old school '03 tech ftw! 
)
But, I know for a fact that my car now notifies me now when it slips slightly like you said, whether at a constant speed or under light acceleration. I suppose calculating something based of the distance and then maybe somehow using that to formulate how likely it is for something similar to be nearby (i.e. large patch of slippery surface = high chance of more slippery surfaces) and then could even give you something like a percent chance of more slippery area nearby. Maybe that'd be useful.
I'm perfectly satisfied with the PSM warning light slapping on (or, as many experienced drivers can tell, simply noticing a tire slipping before TC/Stability kicks on [and I'm not saying you're inexperienced either]). And the me deciding what may have made me slip, and figuring out myself based on weather conditions and visible road conditions how likely that is to occur again. If my car is telling me that I might slip again, when really I just ran over a small patch of gravel/dirt that definitely doesn't exist further on the road, that'd get as annoying as a 37* Icy Conditions warning. Especially with the way Utah roads are.
The whole point of driving and getting better is pushing that friction circle and knowing when it has been barely broken, and even knowing when it is near breaking without much vehicle aid (because when your break it, that's when the fancy stuff starts working for you in most normal car cases). In hydroplaning situations that I have been in no warning light has come on as far as I can remember, but I can tell almost at the very second that the car starts lifting onto the surface of the water, adjust my speed, and drive accordingly after that until it looks like there is less water on the road. Same goes for all other conditions, except then I usually even get a light, either ABS or PSM flash in my face. Most of those times I look at the dash and go "Oh really? I'm slipping? I couldn't tell
but thanks for saving me by adjusting the stuff I couldn't adjust in that split second."
Not saying your idea is a bad one, just saying that it probably wouldn't be cost effective, or useful, for most people considering what we have today. Until then, I'd be very satisfied with your S-AWC. From driving the single X I have driven, I know I would be. Just going from the '03 to my car was a huge jump in AWD systems and it's still pretty basic.
)But, I know for a fact that my car now notifies me now when it slips slightly like you said, whether at a constant speed or under light acceleration. I suppose calculating something based of the distance and then maybe somehow using that to formulate how likely it is for something similar to be nearby (i.e. large patch of slippery surface = high chance of more slippery surfaces) and then could even give you something like a percent chance of more slippery area nearby. Maybe that'd be useful.
I'm perfectly satisfied with the PSM warning light slapping on (or, as many experienced drivers can tell, simply noticing a tire slipping before TC/Stability kicks on [and I'm not saying you're inexperienced either]). And the me deciding what may have made me slip, and figuring out myself based on weather conditions and visible road conditions how likely that is to occur again. If my car is telling me that I might slip again, when really I just ran over a small patch of gravel/dirt that definitely doesn't exist further on the road, that'd get as annoying as a 37* Icy Conditions warning. Especially with the way Utah roads are.
The whole point of driving and getting better is pushing that friction circle and knowing when it has been barely broken, and even knowing when it is near breaking without much vehicle aid (because when your break it, that's when the fancy stuff starts working for you in most normal car cases). In hydroplaning situations that I have been in no warning light has come on as far as I can remember, but I can tell almost at the very second that the car starts lifting onto the surface of the water, adjust my speed, and drive accordingly after that until it looks like there is less water on the road. Same goes for all other conditions, except then I usually even get a light, either ABS or PSM flash in my face. Most of those times I look at the dash and go "Oh really? I'm slipping? I couldn't tell
but thanks for saving me by adjusting the stuff I couldn't adjust in that split second."Not saying your idea is a bad one, just saying that it probably wouldn't be cost effective, or useful, for most people considering what we have today. Until then, I'd be very satisfied with your S-AWC. From driving the single X I have driven, I know I would be. Just going from the '03 to my car was a huge jump in AWD systems and it's still pretty basic.
Nov 19, 2008, 04:19 PM
#23
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But, I know for a fact that my car now notifies me now when it slips slightly like you said, whether at a constant speed or under light acceleration. I suppose calculating something based of the distance and then maybe somehow using that to formulate how likely it is for something similar to be nearby (i.e. large patch of slippery surface = high chance of more slippery surfaces) and then could even give you something like a percent chance of more slippery area nearby. Maybe that'd be useful.
The system's cost per car would be minimal. The sensors are there, it's just some code you write once and put in on all the cars you make that have those sensors.
Nov 20, 2008, 11:37 AM
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I've noticed something too which ties into those of us with Winter Tires on and no 2nd set of TPM sensors: normally when the "Low Tire Pressure" warning indicator comes on when you first start your car, you can just press the dash button to hide the warning.. but I've noticed also that once the outside temp drops to 3*C/37*F and we get that "Icy Road" warning, once it goes away we're left with the "Low Tire Pressure" warning on the screen again.
I've been caught where I knew I hid the pressure warning only to be hit with it again (blocking my info screen) after the "Icy Roads" warning, lol. Just something to note :P
I've been caught where I knew I hid the pressure warning only to be hit with it again (blocking my info screen) after the "Icy Roads" warning, lol. Just something to note :P
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