hotrodhendrix

Some what true. The car itself costs more compaired to an old DSM because its just all around a better car and more saught after. The 3sgte is a better engine then the 4g hands down.

Down side is the price to upgrade is high. Parts are harder to find and cost more. Not a whole lot of info on huge upgrade numbers either and most of which is mr2's. I think the best numbers for alltracs are still by Pat C, that hits 9 second quarters with full interior and a/c.

I find it fun to have something else most others dont. Ohh and the DSM may be able to take the alltrac on the street but its an off road car.... Turn the tables around and put the alltrac where it belongs. What would happen then?

Prestone

If we are talking about unreliable, starion/conquest took the cake.

I owned the 1987 conquest tsi attached. Engine blew just months after owning it. Bought another engine, warrantied it out twice because it blew twice more, then got rid of it. Throttle body injection and boost never mixed.

GPTourer

No. It costs more because Toyota has a better reputation then Mitsubishi and hold their value better simply because of their brand. But that doesn't make the car better. They are also probably, my guess, 10-15 turbo DSMs for every one Alltrac. Less supply means higher cost. I don't have to look very hard if I want a GSX.

No. No four cylinder on the planet has done the things the 4G63 has.

I do not know and don't care really. I know people rally both cars. I also know it takes a good bit of prep to turn a street car into a rally car. I also know that if I were to want to subject a car to rallying (ie beating the **** out of it) I'd rather start with a $500 DSM then a $5000 All-trac.

hotrodhendrix

Thats what I said for the most part but quality does make a difference. Allot of that comes from many cars over many years but everyone knows that toyota is better quality (not anymore but then) when compaired to other manufacturers. Which is why there is a better reputation that helps hold the values.



Have you ever asked your self why that is? This again goes back to the amount made and that they cost as much as a set of wheels. There are tons of cars selling for so cheap that everyone uses them to upgrade. Much like camaros and mustangs. Because of this the engine got alot more testing and development when it comes to aftermarket performance. I wasnt talking about aftermarket support. I was talking about the over all design and quality of the motor. The 3sgte wins hands down as I said.



LOL. Much like I dont care that some DSM's are faster then alltracs on the street. Apples and oranges my good man. It does take a good bit of prep but the alltrac with its reinforced frame and many easy mods will kill the DSM. Or if your in Canada you can just get an RC/CS or Group A which was a street legal rally ready car. This is plain as day when you compair the WRC wins of both cars.....

As I said the alltrac in my opinion is all around just a much better car. Plus I get the added bonus of having a car people will only see a few times in there lives. A true piece of automotive history.

~Nice looking GST by the way. I wouldn't mind having a GSX to add to my mini collection!

GPTourer

What everybody "knows" and what actually is, are two different things. I do not feel like arguing about public perception vs reality, because they are mostly the same thing. Toyota has a monster PR machine, and has made some good cars. But that doesn't mean everything they have produced is gold. Mitsubishi has made some good cars, made some spectacular blunders and they don't have a good reputation in this country. All I am talking about is the DSM and the Alltrac, not how high a Camry scores on JD Powers or the resale value of a Lexus RX330. None of that matters. We'll see what happens to Toyota's resale as they go through this nightmare of rusty pickup truck frames and unintended acceleration. And you'll see that part of what goes into the resale value of a car is not just how its built but also the whims of the fickle car buying public and the press.

At one time the Ford Escort was the best selling car in the US, for several years running. By your logic they should also be 1000+hp and 9, 8, 7 and 6 second examples. But they're not. So another low selling expensive Toyota like the MKIV TT should NOT have as much aftermarket support because they are expensive and not many were made, but they do and are the most dominate of the Japan GTs in this country. So which is it? Your logic is not sound. The DSM is better then the All-trac because it is a better platform and a much stronger engine. You don't have to throw a lot of parts at a 4G63 to get good power. You have to do a lot to a 3SGTE to get modest power out of it because its like paper mache and blasa wood compared to the stout 4G63. There are countries where the All-trac is present where DSMs weren't even sold, but still none of those imported parts or knowledge have made the All-trac even a threat to all the fast Mitsus in this country. And in those other country's Evos go faster then Alltracs. I think the fastest one I've ever heard of around here is just now into the 9s. And even though DSMS sold better then Alltracs, the number of turbo DSMs still pales in comparison to the Camaro or Mustang, another poor analogy. Ten years worth of turbo DSMs and each year produced only about 20% at peak was a turbo, the rest N/As. If you want to see a high dollar cousin to the DSM, look up Galant VR-4 prices, only 3000 were made and even though they are virtually the same car but a little heavier they will command 2-3 times the price of a GSX because they ARE RARE.

I don't rally and don't know much about it, obviously you do. To say you don't care about the street performance of the DSM which is obviously where it has most of accomplishments is rather childsih. I might say I don't really care much about Tiger Woods golf achievements and say he's not much of an athlete. Mitsu did not campaign the DSM (Eclipse, Talon Laser) in WRC and the GVR-4 was replaced by the Evo. Maybe you should have said the Alltrac is a better rally car then the DSM. I would have accepted that as probable.

You are welcome to your opinion, but to say its better because it has an inflated resale value and a better engine are false statements. Plus using half million dollar WRC cars that didn't even use 3SGTEs to power them doesn't back up your statement either, but weakens it. Mitsubishi at least used production based 4G63s in their WRC efforts with the GVR-4 and the Evo.

Thanks.

lancerguy0208

I have to start by saying the '99 VR-4 is my personal all-time favorite car. I can definitely say they were one of the best Japanese cars of its time. In the 90's it was a technological marvel with its 4-wheel steering, active aero, 6-speed Getrag tranny and everything else. But Mitsubishi cut alot of those electronic gadgets because they made the car crazy expensive. Also, as everyone knows the car is hugely overweight. I think a loaded VR-4 is almost 4000 lbs. But compared to cars from one or two decades ago, technology now is so much more advanced that we get toys like Active Yaw Control and superhero transmissions and suspensions in the Evolution X for much less money. The VR-4 was a super car in its time, but it cant compete with today's sports cars.

turbo26tsi

iTrader: (1)

starion is very reliable, I've owned 2 for 13 years. It had some issues that all mitsus have but easily ironed out by the diy'er. I had bolt ons and an 18g turbo running 18lbs of boost. but wasn't fast enuf, so upgrades:

heres after the gt37.its not very reliable now but hey i have the power.



respect the old school, but starion or 3000gt can't hang with an evo x.

slo4g63

iTrader: (3)

+1 very nice, clean!!!!

cotmfk

Look how much room is in the engine bay! Nice pics, though. Looks well kept up.

EvolutionTheory

iTrader: (2)

I loved mine, but I'd say the X is much better overall. It is tough to find one with under 100K miles these days, and most of them have been beaten. I had 2 and I sold them both with over 165K miles (last one sold with 200K miles) and I never really had many major issues with them. I didn't mod them too much other than intake, exh, boost controller, CFDS, and I didn't race them or anything so if you take care of them they can actually be very reliable.

The X just has more goodies and more space. Handles much better too.

Some pics:

hotrodhendrix

Looks like my post was deleted... I know its off topic but why delete mine and not all?

Anyways I dont feel like taking my time to try to explain it again.

cotmfk

Looks nice! And those mileages are insane. I got one used that had been wrecked harder than the titanic. I ended up paying for that dearly while I owned the car.

Xtremist

iTrader: (1)

The VR-4/GTO was a stellar looking vehicle for it's time, I even like the G VR-4, then again I've liked many Mitsubishi's from DSM's to todays current line up! I'm glad Mitsubishi is back to beings on it's own again, as Chrysler was a major killer of Mitsubishi reputation!!! The Starion's 2.6 was a great engine as my Dad's Mighty Max is running strong at 146k miles, rather than the valve guides needing replaced, it's still a very sound engine. No matter the make, there's always issues and there's also many instances where people modify and completely trash the vehicles and spread false rumors like cancer! Plain and simple, Mitsubishi isn't p.c. enough for the United States to make their choice brand, which I'm thrilled about, the less you stay out of the spot light the less scrutiny you're under! Now back to the topic, the 4g63 is a legendary engine and the DSM's were never intended to be a rally car, I'm still scratching my head about the alltrac comparison?

hotrodhendrix

LOL me to. Its hard to compare cars that were built for different purposes. Even harder then trying to compare todays tech with the VR4's 20 year old tech.

ralliart99VR4

99 VR4

It's a totally different experience