Originally Posted by Xtremist

Stock for Stock the VR-4 could give the X problems with the right driver behind the wheel!

Originally Posted by cpunlamd

Isnt the VR4 supposed to be fast when modded? A red late body VR4 pulled up next to me yesterday at a light (on a local highway) He was loud (im assuming catback), with the assorted gauges, lowered, etc.

Originally Posted by hotdog

The 4G63 powered VR-4s with the right mods could easily destroy a stock Evo X,

Originally Posted by GPTourer

I believe you two are talking about two different cars:

3000GT VR-4 and Galant VR-4

Originally Posted by GPTourer

I believe you two are talking about two different cars:

3000GT VR-4 and Galant VR-4

Originally Posted by GPTourer

What everybody "knows" and what actually is, are two different things. I do not feel like arguing about public perception vs reality, because they are mostly the same thing. Toyota has a monster PR machine, and has made some good cars. But that doesn't mean everything they have produced is gold. Mitsubishi has made some good cars, made some spectacular blunders and they don't have a good reputation in this country. All I am talking about is the DSM and the Alltrac, not how high a Camry scores on JD Powers or the resale value of a Lexus RX330. None of that matters. We'll see what happens to Toyota's resale as they go through this nightmare of rusty pickup truck frames and unintended acceleration. And you'll see that part of what goes into the resale value of a car is not just how its built but also the whims of the fickle car buying public and the press.



At one time the Ford Escort was the best selling car in the US, for several years running. By your logic they should also be 1000+hp and 9, 8, 7 and 6 second examples. But they're not. So another low selling expensive Toyota like the MKIV TT should NOT have as much aftermarket support because they are expensive and not many were made, but they do and are the most dominate of the Japan GTs in this country. So which is it? Your logic is not sound. The DSM is better then the All-trac because it is a better platform and a much stronger engine. You don't have to throw a lot of parts at a 4G63 to get good power. You have to do a lot to a 3SGTE to get modest power out of it because its like paper mache and blasa wood compared to the stout 4G63. There are countries where the All-trac is present where DSMs weren't even sold, but still none of those imported parts or knowledge have made the All-trac even a threat to all the fast Mitsus in this country. And in those other country's Evos go faster then Alltracs. I think the fastest one I've ever heard of around here is just now into the 9s. And even though DSMS sold better then Alltracs, the number of turbo DSMs still pales in comparison to the Camaro or Mustang, another poor analogy. Ten years worth of turbo DSMs and each year produced only about 20% at peak was a turbo, the rest N/As. If you want to see a high dollar cousin to the DSM, look up Galant VR-4 prices, only 3000 were made and even though they are virtually the same car but a little heavier they will command 2-3 times the price of a GSX because they ARE RARE.



I don't rally and don't know much about it, obviously you do. To say you don't care about the street performance of the DSM which is obviously where it has most of accomplishments is rather childsih. I might say I don't really care much about Tiger Woods golf achievements and say he's not much of an athlete. Mitsu did not campaign the DSM (Eclipse, Talon Laser) in WRC and the GVR-4 was replaced by the Evo. Maybe you should have said the Alltrac is a better rally car then the DSM. I would have accepted that as probable.



You are welcome to your opinion, but to say its better because it has an inflated resale value and a better engine are false statements. Plus using half million dollar WRC cars that didn't even use 3SGTEs to power them doesn't back up your statement either, but weakens it. Mitsubishi at least used production based 4G63s in their WRC efforts with the GVR-4 and the Evo.



Thanks.