Headlight condensation warranty denied
Dec 26, 2011, 10:11 AM
#47
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Well, I got the call a few minutes ago that they're denying the claim, since water is not "pooled".
I did some digging around and from NHTSA's documentation, this is what I came up with:
FMVSS 108, Section 7.4.6:
Integral Beam Headlighting System. An integral beam
headlighting system shall be designed to conform to the following
requirements:
After a humidity test conducted in accordance with paragraph
S8.7, the inside of the headlamp shall show no evidence of delamination
or moisture, fogging or condensation visible without magnification.
$5 says my headlight would not meet this requirement...
There is also a requirement in section 8 for the distance from which reflectors on a car must be visible from. Considering that the condensation over my reflectors NEVER goes away, I think that would be a valid argument too. Either way, I requested that their management calls me so I can discuss this with them.
I did some digging around and from NHTSA's documentation, this is what I came up with:
FMVSS 108, Section 7.4.6:
Integral Beam Headlighting System. An integral beam
headlighting system shall be designed to conform to the following
requirements:
After a humidity test conducted in accordance with paragraph
S8.7, the inside of the headlamp shall show no evidence of delamination
or moisture, fogging or condensation visible without magnification.
$5 says my headlight would not meet this requirement...
There is also a requirement in section 8 for the distance from which reflectors on a car must be visible from. Considering that the condensation over my reflectors NEVER goes away, I think that would be a valid argument too. Either way, I requested that their management calls me so I can discuss this with them.
Dec 26, 2011, 03:27 PM
#49
You guys need to obviously read this again
i build headlights professionaly, and trust me, your problem may indeed be that the lights are sealed too well.
If there is no way for the humidity, pressure and temperature on the inside, to get to the outside levels the lights can get condensation inside. This is like taking a cold glass of water out of the fridge on a warm summer day. Condensation gets on the warm side.
When i retrofit headlights i drill a small hole, about 1/4 or 1/8 inch and cover it with a small patch of gortex. The gortex allows gases to pass but not liquids.
This may solve your problem.
If there is no way for the humidity, pressure and temperature on the inside, to get to the outside levels the lights can get condensation inside. This is like taking a cold glass of water out of the fridge on a warm summer day. Condensation gets on the warm side.
When i retrofit headlights i drill a small hole, about 1/4 or 1/8 inch and cover it with a small patch of gortex. The gortex allows gases to pass but not liquids.
This may solve your problem.
Last edited by fostytou; Dec 27, 2011 at 08:01 AM.
Dec 26, 2011, 04:08 PM
#50
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^^No need to be rude, everyone has read that post and as I said previously, I don't want to mess with the lights until everything is finalized with Mitsu.
Dec 26, 2011, 04:22 PM
#51
+1 to the OP. I've read his post.. and this whole thread a few times.
Why should a consumer have to pull off the bumper, take out both headlight assemblies and randomly drill new "vent" holes - on a brand new 2011 with a 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty??
If Jp7 wants to explain exactly where we should be drilling these new holes, yeah, that would probably be very helpful to those of us out of warranty, and comfortable with working on vehicles. But I don't see why that should be necessary on a brand new $35k car.
And btw, abusive posts aren't tolerated here.
Why should a consumer have to pull off the bumper, take out both headlight assemblies and randomly drill new "vent" holes - on a brand new 2011 with a 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty??
If Jp7 wants to explain exactly where we should be drilling these new holes, yeah, that would probably be very helpful to those of us out of warranty, and comfortable with working on vehicles. But I don't see why that should be necessary on a brand new $35k car.
And btw, abusive posts aren't tolerated here.
Last edited by fostytou; Dec 27, 2011 at 08:01 AM.
Dec 27, 2011, 12:12 AM
#53
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One question that i have is.... Does the condensation effect light output and is it hindering the operation of the headlight, if not then thats probably why Mitsu is not replacing it. It just like with the Fuel relay issue the Dealer wont fix it under warranty unless its an operational issue. If you want it replaced because of looks, well then your probably SOL.
Dec 27, 2011, 08:31 AM
#54
I'm saying read it over to comprehend that it's condensation that is sealed inside, which can also be fixed by removing the bulbs and taking a hair dryer to flush out the moist air that is trapped inside. You can probably do this without removing the headlight housing from the car.
Dec 27, 2011, 09:53 AM
#55
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One question that i have is.... Does the condensation effect light output and is it hindering the operation of the headlight, if not then thats probably why Mitsu is not replacing it. It just like with the Fuel relay issue the Dealer wont fix it under warranty unless its an operational issue. If you want it replaced because of looks, well then your probably SOL.
I talked to Mitsu today, they are completely oblivious about any standards (I had to explain to her what NHTSA, FMVSS, etc. all were
) and can't say anything other than "but our TSB..."I requested to talk to the regional rep, and the best I could get was a "maybe, we'll email him".
In regards to the comment of using a hair dryer, I did that yesterday. It was sunny here, about 40, so I removed the bulb, let the car sit in the sun, and then aired it out using a blow dryer. It stayed clear for a few hours, but was back this morning.
Dec 27, 2011, 11:50 AM
#56
You know where they hate to see bad PR? on Facebook
Post it on facebook, with all the details and how both the Dealership and Corporate treated u
http://www.facebook.com/mitsubishi
Post it on facebook, with all the details and how both the Dealership and Corporate treated u
http://www.facebook.com/mitsubishi
Dec 27, 2011, 12:34 PM
#57
You know where they hate to see bad PR? on Facebook
Post it on facebook, with all the details and how both the Dealership and Corporate treated u
http://www.facebook.com/mitsubishi
Post it on facebook, with all the details and how both the Dealership and Corporate treated u
http://www.facebook.com/mitsubishi
It's a shame someone would have to resort to that, but ya.. I'm pretty sure they don't care what we say around here. But on facebook, you'd have prospective Outlander and iMiev owners seeing how they handle simple issues that could effect them as well.
Anyway, sorry to hear the hair-dryer idea didn't work.
ETA: if you go on facebook, post pics of the condensation.
Dec 27, 2011, 01:01 PM
#58
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that's def a way to get their attention. this issue really sucks. you'd think bumper-to-bumper warranty would cover these sort of issues. Since when did bumper-to-bumper warranty mean "we'll fix it if it only affects operational use..."
unless it's listed as a option on the sticker "occasional headlight/foglight fogging and moisture" it's not normal and should be fixed, be it operational affectedness or not. my .02 cents.
unless it's listed as a option on the sticker "occasional headlight/foglight fogging and moisture" it's not normal and should be fixed, be it operational affectedness or not. my .02 cents.
Dec 27, 2011, 01:32 PM
#59
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Good idea on Facebook guys, I'm going to wait until next week to see if the regional rep responds, then they'll be getting a message on there.
I'm also going to look up the sae test on Monday, and potentially have our lab run the test. The reports will then be mailed to nhtsa to see what they say
I'm also going to look up the sae test on Monday, and potentially have our lab run the test. The reports will then be mailed to nhtsa to see what they say
Dec 27, 2011, 04:51 PM
#60
A light haze of condensation (not liquid water) is considered normal, or acceptable by all OEMs. it is very common and I doubt any dealer would replace the headlights under these conditions.
One thing that I have done is used a "dissicant" package (might be spelled wrong) to absorb excess humidity that may have gotten into your lamps... Have you ever bought a product and a little bag (sorta like a tea-bag size) is inside? I think when you buy a new pair of shoes, frequently they come in those. You can try placing a dissicant inside behind the cover - it should help absorb excess humidity. Make sure that when you place it in there, you will need to know that you can get it back out without losing it forever.
As far as drilling holes - you need the gortex to patch them. Typically holes should be placed as far away from the hottest part of the lamp as possible (away from the HID bulb, or Halogen).
These are the latest lamps I built, you can see the patch holes drilled very small in the corner. You can't tell but in the back is the gortex patch to keep liquid out.
You can't really see them with the lenses on.
One thing that I have done is used a "dissicant" package (might be spelled wrong) to absorb excess humidity that may have gotten into your lamps... Have you ever bought a product and a little bag (sorta like a tea-bag size) is inside? I think when you buy a new pair of shoes, frequently they come in those. You can try placing a dissicant inside behind the cover - it should help absorb excess humidity. Make sure that when you place it in there, you will need to know that you can get it back out without losing it forever.
As far as drilling holes - you need the gortex to patch them. Typically holes should be placed as far away from the hottest part of the lamp as possible (away from the HID bulb, or Halogen).
These are the latest lamps I built, you can see the patch holes drilled very small in the corner. You can't tell but in the back is the gortex patch to keep liquid out.
You can't really see them with the lenses on.