How Do You Approach a Corner with an Evo
Jan 18, 2012, 08:33 AM
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How Do You Approach a Corner with an Evo
I ask this question because the Evo is a unique car. From my understanding it is essentially front wheel drive but can send up to 50% of the power (torque) to the back wheels. Of that 50% sent to the back wheels, all of the available torque can then be transfered to the outside wheel during a turn, while both front keep wheels going as well. I also believe the front wheels have a limited slip differential.
.... lol ok that was a mouthful (someone please correct me if my understanding is incorrect)
So my question is... Do you approach the corner like you would in a FWD car or RWD car, or some sort of mix.
So far I have been approaching corners with a FWD approach as it feels right from the drivers seat. Once the corner is initiated I get on the throttle which sends power to the back wheels, then to the outside wheel, which catapults you around the corner. However, sometimes when I do this with the traction control turned as far off as it can go, I start to feel the back end starting to slip out.
At this point I have a conundrum.... Do I stay on the gas and pray the wheels regain grip and keep the torque going on the outside wheel (inducing a little oversteer) or do I let off the throttle a little, let the wheels regain friction, then reapply throttle (inducing a little understeer then transitioning back to neutral/oversteer)
What do you think/do?
Thanks!
.... lol ok that was a mouthful (someone please correct me if my understanding is incorrect)
So my question is... Do you approach the corner like you would in a FWD car or RWD car, or some sort of mix.
So far I have been approaching corners with a FWD approach as it feels right from the drivers seat. Once the corner is initiated I get on the throttle which sends power to the back wheels, then to the outside wheel, which catapults you around the corner. However, sometimes when I do this with the traction control turned as far off as it can go, I start to feel the back end starting to slip out.
At this point I have a conundrum.... Do I stay on the gas and pray the wheels regain grip and keep the torque going on the outside wheel (inducing a little oversteer) or do I let off the throttle a little, let the wheels regain friction, then reapply throttle (inducing a little understeer then transitioning back to neutral/oversteer)
What do you think/do?
Thanks!
Jan 18, 2012, 08:42 AM
#2
Evolved Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do I aproach a corner? ... flat out.. brake late and hard and make sure to hit the apex properly.
If the back end steps out, I steer into it and accelerate to get the power distributed to all 4 wheels (I have an 03 with the mechanical center diff). Once the car has rotated to the direction I want to go, I straighten the steering wheel, and off you go.
If you're not familiar with turbo cars, the key to a good corner exit is not to time your throttle inputs to the corner apex, but the boost. You want the boost to hit just after the apex or can get understeer on corner exit.
If the back end steps out, I steer into it and accelerate to get the power distributed to all 4 wheels (I have an 03 with the mechanical center diff). Once the car has rotated to the direction I want to go, I straighten the steering wheel, and off you go.
If you're not familiar with turbo cars, the key to a good corner exit is not to time your throttle inputs to the corner apex, but the boost. You want the boost to hit just after the apex or can get understeer on corner exit.
Jan 18, 2012, 08:44 AM
#3
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Oromocto
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you just don't put as much throttle when this happens.
Almost forget how to drive when answering these questions ahah. but you use throttle for both front and rear view vehicles. Front wheel cars will pull u around the corner.
Rear wheel drive vehicles, u apply light throttle to tighten up the drive train, stiffing the car a bit more. - this is prominant in bigger trucks- Fire truck.
Hope this helps.
If you are sliding your rear out that much, then look into some better tires, or play with the AWC setting, you may find that you don't like tarmac on pave, and may prefer gravel while in snow>
Almost forget how to drive when answering these questions ahah. but you use throttle for both front and rear view vehicles. Front wheel cars will pull u around the corner.
Rear wheel drive vehicles, u apply light throttle to tighten up the drive train, stiffing the car a bit more. - this is prominant in bigger trucks- Fire truck.
Hope this helps.
If you are sliding your rear out that much, then look into some better tires, or play with the AWC setting, you may find that you don't like tarmac on pave, and may prefer gravel while in snow>
Jan 18, 2012, 08:46 AM
#5
I ask this question because the Evo is a unique car. From my understanding it is essentially front wheel drive but can send up to 50% of the power (torque) to the back wheels. Of that 50% sent to the back wheels, all of the available torque can then be transfered to the outside wheel during a turn, while both front keep wheels going as well. I also believe the front wheels have a limited slip differential.
First, the center diff has a 50/50 torque split. Note: I follow the convention of using "torque split" to describe the gearing and "torque distribution" to describe the combination of the gearing and the action of any extra bits, such as a limited-slip device and/or the AYC. When the center is at least partially locked by the active limited-slip device, the torque distribution can deviate from 50/50. If the center is locked solid (i.e., is no longer a differential), then the torque distribution can be anything from 100/0 to 0/100. (But I doubt that the center can actually lock hard enough to send 300 foot-pounds to only one end of the car.) But the torque split is always 50/50.
Second, the AYC is not only incapable of rerouting all of the torque from one side to the other, it doesn't even try. What it does is try to rotate the outside rear wheel faster than the inside rear. Thus, it's actually rerouting power, not torque (but that's a weedy point that can be ignored). The key, though, is that it doesn't try to send nothing to the inside rear; the rerouting is actually modest.
Last edited by Iowa999; Jan 18, 2012 at 08:57 AM.
Jan 18, 2012, 08:46 AM
#6
What do you think/do?
Last edited by FJF; Jan 18, 2012 at 08:57 AM. Reason: typo
Jan 18, 2012, 09:00 AM
#7
Evolved Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In da streetz
Posts: 3,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry for the generic answer, but every corner is different.
EVO's tend to push/understeer a lot (speaking of VIII/IX), in some corners that is a good thing, but most it is not. generally slow in fast out will be faster than late braking. Late braking = getting on the gas later in the corner. The sooner you get the braking done and can get back on the gas, the faster you will be coming out of the corner. That extra speed you pick up by getting on the gas sooner will be carried the entire length of the straight.
If you go in too hot and have to lift mid-corner you are doing it wrong and should adjust your line or entry speed. What you want to try and accomplish is being able to ROLL into the throttle and not lift at all until you are into the braking zone of the next corner.
EVO's tend to push/understeer a lot (speaking of VIII/IX), in some corners that is a good thing, but most it is not. generally slow in fast out will be faster than late braking. Late braking = getting on the gas later in the corner. The sooner you get the braking done and can get back on the gas, the faster you will be coming out of the corner. That extra speed you pick up by getting on the gas sooner will be carried the entire length of the straight.
If you go in too hot and have to lift mid-corner you are doing it wrong and should adjust your line or entry speed. What you want to try and accomplish is being able to ROLL into the throttle and not lift at all until you are into the braking zone of the next corner.
Trending Topics
Jan 18, 2012, 09:48 AM
#10
Sorry for the generic answer, but every corner is different.
EVO's tend to push/understeer a lot (speaking of VIII/IX), in some corners that is a good thing, but most it is not. generally slow in fast out will be faster than late braking. Late braking = getting on the gas later in the corner. The sooner you get the braking done and can get back on the gas, the faster you will be coming out of the corner. That extra speed you pick up by getting on the gas sooner will be carried the entire length of the straight.
If you go in too hot and have to lift mid-corner you are doing it wrong and should adjust your line or entry speed. What you want to try and accomplish is being able to ROLL into the throttle and not lift at all until you are into the braking zone of the next corner.
EVO's tend to push/understeer a lot (speaking of VIII/IX), in some corners that is a good thing, but most it is not. generally slow in fast out will be faster than late braking. Late braking = getting on the gas later in the corner. The sooner you get the braking done and can get back on the gas, the faster you will be coming out of the corner. That extra speed you pick up by getting on the gas sooner will be carried the entire length of the straight.
If you go in too hot and have to lift mid-corner you are doing it wrong and should adjust your line or entry speed. What you want to try and accomplish is being able to ROLL into the throttle and not lift at all until you are into the braking zone of the next corner.
Jan 18, 2012, 09:49 AM
#11
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^ I think that is true with the EVO VIII and IX but the X tends to go neutral to oversteer which gives it the ability to come even close to VIII and IX lap times despite the 300lb weight difference.
I was previously misinformed. I was told because the engine is set up inversely like a FWD car the torque split went 100 % front intially then up to 50/50 F/R instead of being 50/50 always and rerouting speed in which the rear wheels spin at is the AYC. (Is this correct?)
Just for clairfication the Evo is different from the STI and GTR systems which are rear wheel biased because the evo is locked at 50/50. I think in the reviews I have max torque that can go to the rear wheels in the Evo is 50%
As for the tires, they are the ones that come stock. They seem to be pretty good so far. I know when they are starting to break traction.
Thanks guys
I was previously misinformed. I was told because the engine is set up inversely like a FWD car the torque split went 100 % front intially then up to 50/50 F/R instead of being 50/50 always and rerouting speed in which the rear wheels spin at is the AYC. (Is this correct?)
Just for clairfication the Evo is different from the STI and GTR systems which are rear wheel biased because the evo is locked at 50/50. I think in the reviews I have max torque that can go to the rear wheels in the Evo is 50%
As for the tires, they are the ones that come stock. They seem to be pretty good so far. I know when they are starting to break traction.
Thanks guys
Last edited by nismo2evox; Jan 18, 2012 at 09:52 AM.
Jan 18, 2012, 12:27 PM
#12
Yes, both the STi and the GTR have planetary centers with a rear bias. Closer to home, the 3000GT VR4 did, too. In contrast, all DSMs and Evos have a spider-type 50/50 center, although Cusco, for example, makes a nice 35/65 planetary center that fits older Evos and all DSMs.
Where things go wrong is the idea that the most that will end up at the rear of an Evo is 50%. The torque split is already 50/50, so the action of the limited-slip device on the center will allow you to go above or below that. If the center manages that lock completely (and stay locked), then 100% could be used by the rear.
The best way that I've come up with to explain this is to imagine driving across a strip of oiled glass while on the gas. Assume that you are only partly on the gas and the center stays locked the whole time. When the front wheels hit the oiled glass, the torque distribution goes to 0/100, since the fronts have no grip and can't use any torque. A moment later, the rears hit the oiled glass and now you are at 100/0.
Again, torque split is always 50/50, as that is set by the gearing. But if there's a limited-slip device also involved, the torque distribution (which is how the torque is actually being used) can vary away from the native split. If your limited-slip device is up to it, the torque distribution can go as low [front-biased] as 100/0 or as high [rear-biased] as 0/100.
Jan 18, 2012, 01:15 PM
#13
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Half points.
Yes, both the STi and the GTR have planetary centers with a rear bias. Closer to home, the 3000GT VR4 did, too. In contrast, all DSMs and Evos have a spider-type 50/50 center, although Cusco, for example, makes a nice 35/65 planetary center that fits older Evos and all DSMs.
Where things go wrong is the idea that the most that will end up at the rear of an Evo is 50%. The torque split is already 50/50, so the action of the limited-slip device on the center will allow you to go above or below that. If the center manages that lock completely (and stay locked), then 100% could be used by the rear.
The best way that I've come up with to explain this is to imagine driving across a strip of oiled glass while on the gas. Assume that you are only partly on the gas and the center stays locked the whole time. When the front wheels hit the oiled glass, the torque distribution goes to 0/100, since the fronts have no grip and can't use any torque. A moment later, the rears hit the oiled glass and now you are at 100/0.
Again, torque split is always 50/50, as that is set by the gearing. But if there's a limited-slip device also involved, the torque distribution (which is how the torque is actually being used) can vary away from the native split. If your limited-slip device is up to it, the torque distribution can go as low [front-biased] as 100/0 or as high [rear-biased] as 0/100.
Yes, both the STi and the GTR have planetary centers with a rear bias. Closer to home, the 3000GT VR4 did, too. In contrast, all DSMs and Evos have a spider-type 50/50 center, although Cusco, for example, makes a nice 35/65 planetary center that fits older Evos and all DSMs.
Where things go wrong is the idea that the most that will end up at the rear of an Evo is 50%. The torque split is already 50/50, so the action of the limited-slip device on the center will allow you to go above or below that. If the center manages that lock completely (and stay locked), then 100% could be used by the rear.
The best way that I've come up with to explain this is to imagine driving across a strip of oiled glass while on the gas. Assume that you are only partly on the gas and the center stays locked the whole time. When the front wheels hit the oiled glass, the torque distribution goes to 0/100, since the fronts have no grip and can't use any torque. A moment later, the rears hit the oiled glass and now you are at 100/0.
Again, torque split is always 50/50, as that is set by the gearing. But if there's a limited-slip device also involved, the torque distribution (which is how the torque is actually being used) can vary away from the native split. If your limited-slip device is up to it, the torque distribution can go as low [front-biased] as 100/0 or as high [rear-biased] as 0/100.
Awesome, I get it now. Thanks for the explaination
