Recommended suspension upgrade path
Mar 4, 2012, 09:56 AM
#1
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Recommended suspension upgrade path
So after owning the X for 3 years I'm finally ready to improve the handling on it. I'm not looking to track my car or autocross every chance I get. I just want a fun daily driver that is as much fun to drive on canyon roads as it is on the streets. My plan is to buy front and rear sway bars, swift spec r springs and eventually a whiteline roll center kit. If you guys can list the with brands and models of kits recommended that would be awesome!
Ultimately I'm wondering what should be my first purchase from the parts listed above, and if any of them are unnecessary. PS - I don't want to buy coilovers at this stage!
Ultimately I'm wondering what should be my first purchase from the parts listed above, and if any of them are unnecessary. PS - I don't want to buy coilovers at this stage!
Mar 4, 2012, 10:38 AM
#2
IMO, you might be fine with just some quality lowering springs. I have H&R springs but most high quality springs should be good. A lot of people have GTWorx springs and like them. Swift is good too though. So I would suggest replacing those and see what you think.
One top notch vendor on here suggested some Whiteline front and rear sways on my next suspension upgrade path, so I would suggest those. I have heard the stock rear endlinks are not strong enough though and bend, so you might need to look in to replacing those at the same time as the rear sway.
One top notch vendor on here suggested some Whiteline front and rear sways on my next suspension upgrade path, so I would suggest those. I have heard the stock rear endlinks are not strong enough though and bend, so you might need to look in to replacing those at the same time as the rear sway.
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Mar 4, 2012, 08:20 PM
#8
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wouldn't that make the rear stiffer than the front though?
Mar 5, 2012, 04:13 AM
#9
No.
Sway bars don't make the car stiff they keep it from leaning when under corner forces. Essentially they take that body lean and push it pack down through the tires. That's not a perfect physics description but it will do.
So a bigger (thicker) rear sway will reduce the body lean (roll) in the rear. The Evo X has a tendency to push in the corner, meaning it will understeer. Adding a rear sway helps balance this out some by reducing the roll in the rear and taking some of that energy and pushing it to the tires (rear) and so the car's rear tires will slide a little sooner (as opposed to the fronts) reducing your understeer and improving car rotation.
Too stiff a spring will do the same thing essentially, in that it pushes back the g forces to the ground through the tires (which have a constant grip factor. So that if you put a stiffer spring in the rear than in the front you can "lighten up" the car's rear so that it will slide sooner increasing oversteer. Oversteer isn't better, mind you, just a different problem (snap oversteer, for example is very bad and will scare the peaches out of you on the track).
Stiffer in the front will "lighten up" the handling in the front increasing understeer. If you have a tail happy Porsche, you might want this but the Evo already pushes a bit in the front (meaning the front tires tend to break traction before the rear causing the car to push across the turn instead of rotating, thus the term understeer). So, a sway bar in the front is not particularly helpful. I do think the Evo benefits from a slightly stiffer spring and damping front and rear but that is in combination with other changes to manage the understeer. And, of course, a stiffer spring will change your ride characteristics some.
Lowering the car helps to lower the center of gravity and reduces body roll and sharpens turn in and helps rotate the car. So shorter springs will help a bit with that.
A rear sway will help reduce rear roll, lighten up the tail and help the car rotate. Do that too, when you are ready. (I would now)
Endlinks will help sharpen the steering response and weight transition from one side to the next. Do these for the rear when you do the sway.
Bushings will tighten the whole car up, improve steering responsiveness, turn in, transitions , etc. I suggest them as they are relatively inexpensive, won't change the ride quality, and will improve all the good things about the car's handling. You will feel a bit more of the road though. Drive over bricks, well, you will notice you are driving over bricks.
If it were me, looking back over my own the suspension improvement process for a street car (the race car is a little different). I would do the sway and endlinks and bushings and save up for coilovers. I know, you don't want to get those (but I suspect you will someday). Your car will look stock, ride nicely, and handle better, all the time. Then you find a nice set of used coilovers and camber plates and you are in business.
Sway bars don't make the car stiff they keep it from leaning when under corner forces. Essentially they take that body lean and push it pack down through the tires. That's not a perfect physics description but it will do.
So a bigger (thicker) rear sway will reduce the body lean (roll) in the rear. The Evo X has a tendency to push in the corner, meaning it will understeer. Adding a rear sway helps balance this out some by reducing the roll in the rear and taking some of that energy and pushing it to the tires (rear) and so the car's rear tires will slide a little sooner (as opposed to the fronts) reducing your understeer and improving car rotation.
Too stiff a spring will do the same thing essentially, in that it pushes back the g forces to the ground through the tires (which have a constant grip factor. So that if you put a stiffer spring in the rear than in the front you can "lighten up" the car's rear so that it will slide sooner increasing oversteer. Oversteer isn't better, mind you, just a different problem (snap oversteer, for example is very bad and will scare the peaches out of you on the track).
Stiffer in the front will "lighten up" the handling in the front increasing understeer. If you have a tail happy Porsche, you might want this but the Evo already pushes a bit in the front (meaning the front tires tend to break traction before the rear causing the car to push across the turn instead of rotating, thus the term understeer). So, a sway bar in the front is not particularly helpful. I do think the Evo benefits from a slightly stiffer spring and damping front and rear but that is in combination with other changes to manage the understeer. And, of course, a stiffer spring will change your ride characteristics some.
Lowering the car helps to lower the center of gravity and reduces body roll and sharpens turn in and helps rotate the car. So shorter springs will help a bit with that.
A rear sway will help reduce rear roll, lighten up the tail and help the car rotate. Do that too, when you are ready. (I would now)
Endlinks will help sharpen the steering response and weight transition from one side to the next. Do these for the rear when you do the sway.
Bushings will tighten the whole car up, improve steering responsiveness, turn in, transitions , etc. I suggest them as they are relatively inexpensive, won't change the ride quality, and will improve all the good things about the car's handling. You will feel a bit more of the road though. Drive over bricks, well, you will notice you are driving over bricks.
If it were me, looking back over my own the suspension improvement process for a street car (the race car is a little different). I would do the sway and endlinks and bushings and save up for coilovers. I know, you don't want to get those (but I suspect you will someday). Your car will look stock, ride nicely, and handle better, all the time. Then you find a nice set of used coilovers and camber plates and you are in business.
Mar 5, 2012, 01:26 PM
#10
When you lower your car, you might consider picking up the rear camber kit and maybe the adjustable front camber bolt..
Whiteline Rear Camber Kit (~200$)
Any front adjustable camber bolt (~30$)
My car is lowered on Tein springs. This seems to be a hit or miss for different cars. I went to get an alignment done and was told my rear camber bolt is worn out of place due to the extra pressure from lowered springs. It's starting to bend the frame and alignment is impossible. A few month later, my front bolt started to wear out also.. The front bolt is fairly cheap compare to rear camber kit..
you can save money by having cheaper brands like Megan.. but Whiteline is the best imo... Plus these are necessary later on if you decide to drop the car lower with coilovers
Side question for the experts:
I've read conversations saying that the Evo suspension is fairly top notch. Randomly switching out parts may actually worsen the suspension. Do I need to worry about this if I install simple parts like rear sways, endlinks, etc.
Whiteline Rear Camber Kit (~200$)
Any front adjustable camber bolt (~30$)
My car is lowered on Tein springs. This seems to be a hit or miss for different cars. I went to get an alignment done and was told my rear camber bolt is worn out of place due to the extra pressure from lowered springs. It's starting to bend the frame and alignment is impossible. A few month later, my front bolt started to wear out also.. The front bolt is fairly cheap compare to rear camber kit..
you can save money by having cheaper brands like Megan.. but Whiteline is the best imo... Plus these are necessary later on if you decide to drop the car lower with coilovers
Side question for the experts:
I've read conversations saying that the Evo suspension is fairly top notch. Randomly switching out parts may actually worsen the suspension. Do I need to worry about this if I install simple parts like rear sways, endlinks, etc.
Last edited by m0nkie; Mar 5, 2012 at 01:30 PM.
Mar 5, 2012, 03:55 PM
#12
In general, I agree with most of what you said, except for this (which you actually said twice):
The problem with the above is that the chassis of an Evo X is incredibly strong. The front and rear don't roll separately; they roll together. What you ought to be saying is that a stiffer rear bar will cause weight-transfer to affect the rear tires more than the fronts. The move from under- to oversteer that a stiffer rear bar causes is due to over-cooking the outside rear, because that's the tire that now bears the brunt of weight-transfer.
The problem with the above is that the chassis of an Evo X is incredibly strong. The front and rear don't roll separately; they roll together. What you ought to be saying is that a stiffer rear bar will cause weight-transfer to affect the rear tires more than the fronts. The move from under- to oversteer that a stiffer rear bar causes is due to over-cooking the outside rear, because that's the tire that now bears the brunt of weight-transfer.
Mar 5, 2012, 04:51 PM
#13
Teins are definitely a bit stiffer than others and drop the car a little lower.. I have it for 40k miles and everything runs perfect (minus the camber kits problem). I don't plan on buying an expensive set of coilovers yet.. so Tein gives the best "dropped look" imo.
Mar 5, 2012, 07:14 PM
#14
Evolving Member
If you're looking to lower the car a bit, and give you a little better handling, go with the swift springs (although other brands are great too) which is what I am currently doing. I also agree with the rear sway bar but that's extra
best of luck!
best of luck!
Mar 5, 2012, 07:21 PM
#15
Evolving Member
I'm using Swift Sport Machs which on their own were fantastic for dd. They softened up daily driving over small bumps due to their progressive nature. On hard corners they were stiffer than stock. Just keep in mind that with any progressive spring, there will be a bit of an initial roll no matter how slow or fast you take a corner. I now have a 27mm whiteline rear sway installed and it definitely made the car flatter in the corners, but it also made the ride in the rear harsher over single side bumps (read: most bumps). I feel it less in the front, but it's definitely noticeable for passengers in the back.