For those of you with ACD pump failures (merged)
Sep 11, 2013, 01:29 PM
#151
Iowa,
Is this technically the SAYC pump and not the ACD pump? I haven't read the thread front to back, but didn't experience failure with my SAYC in my 2008, and my 2013 is too new to be totally technically familiar with this pump. I'm 95% sure we're talking about the one in the right back corner of the car.
If it was an "ACD pump", wouldn't the US CT9A cars have it too?
I just want to re-title if appropriate for search engines.
Thanks!
Is this technically the SAYC pump and not the ACD pump? I haven't read the thread front to back, but didn't experience failure with my SAYC in my 2008, and my 2013 is too new to be totally technically familiar with this pump. I'm 95% sure we're talking about the one in the right back corner of the car.
If it was an "ACD pump", wouldn't the US CT9A cars have it too?
I just want to re-title if appropriate for search engines.
Thanks!
Sep 11, 2013, 02:23 PM
#152
Regardless of the model or market, an Evo always has only one pump. If you have an old Evo of any sort or anything short of an X in the USDM, then the pump has only one solenoid and the output goes to the ACD. If you have a certain non-USDM 9 or a USDM X, then the pump has three solenoids and outputs control the ACD and the AYC.
You can use a three-output pump in a ACD-only car, no problem. (If and when you delete the AYC from your X for serious rallying, you don't need a new pump.) You can only use a one-output pump in a car with AYC if you got a pump that was drilled for the extra two solenoids and outputs. The pump, itself, has been through some minor revisions (in terms of such things as where the power wire goes and how many bolts hold the motor to the body, but the actual motor and the bulb that stores pressure is the same across all variants, from what I can tell and what I've been told.
Upshot: since we're in the Evo X sub-forums (and all Xs have AYC), retitling the thread to be "ACD/AYC pump failures" makes sense.
You can use a three-output pump in a ACD-only car, no problem. (If and when you delete the AYC from your X for serious rallying, you don't need a new pump.) You can only use a one-output pump in a car with AYC if you got a pump that was drilled for the extra two solenoids and outputs. The pump, itself, has been through some minor revisions (in terms of such things as where the power wire goes and how many bolts hold the motor to the body, but the actual motor and the bulb that stores pressure is the same across all variants, from what I can tell and what I've been told.
Upshot: since we're in the Evo X sub-forums (and all Xs have AYC), retitling the thread to be "ACD/AYC pump failures" makes sense.
Last edited by Iowa999; Sep 11, 2013 at 02:28 PM.
Sep 12, 2013, 03:06 PM
#154
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Update on what my Dealer told me regarding the ACD pump.
Its not covered under 5 year powertrain warranty only the 3 year.
I called Mitsu USA customer service.They told me the same dam thing...**** out of luck
Forgot to add this The customer rep also told me if my car was a regular Lancer that part would have been covered but since it is an evo Mitsu does not cover it under the 5 year power train. Pretty dumb
Its not covered under 5 year powertrain warranty only the 3 year.
I called Mitsu USA customer service.They told me the same dam thing...**** out of luck
Forgot to add this The customer rep also told me if my car was a regular Lancer that part would have been covered but since it is an evo Mitsu does not cover it under the 5 year power train. Pretty dumb
Last edited by chundizzy; Sep 13, 2013 at 12:45 PM.
Sep 13, 2013, 08:24 AM
#155
Evolving Member
How much does the ACD come into play with the handling of the car? Without it we still have AYC but without the ACD does that mean we don't have a working LSD?
Sep 13, 2013, 12:02 PM
#156
The pump is required for both the ACD and AYC.
They both play a huge role in handling. The ACD is a bit more important on gravel and the AYC is a bit more important on tarmac, but both are parts of what makes this car special.
Feel free to yank the power to the pump and see how different it is. (This wasn't a snide comment; go ahead and try it; you won't hurt anything.)
They both play a huge role in handling. The ACD is a bit more important on gravel and the AYC is a bit more important on tarmac, but both are parts of what makes this car special.
Feel free to yank the power to the pump and see how different it is. (This wasn't a snide comment; go ahead and try it; you won't hurt anything.)
Sep 13, 2013, 02:42 PM
#160
No. Torque split is determined by the guts of the diff and cannot change. We have a 50/50 center and no-one sells an alternative that fits in our cars (any more).
Please note that, while native torque split is set in stone, moment-to-moment torque distribution can deviate from this (by quite a lot) if you have a working limited-slip device. The OE programming of an Evo X's ACD will transfer up to about 60% (so the distribution will be somewhere from 80/20 to 20/80). With an aftermarket controller or a reflash, that value could be much higher (up until the moment when you toast the clutches, at least). But don't confuse the ability of an LSD to move torque from one output to the other for a change in the native torque split. They are very different things.
Please note that, while native torque split is set in stone, moment-to-moment torque distribution can deviate from this (by quite a lot) if you have a working limited-slip device. The OE programming of an Evo X's ACD will transfer up to about 60% (so the distribution will be somewhere from 80/20 to 20/80). With an aftermarket controller or a reflash, that value could be much higher (up until the moment when you toast the clutches, at least). But don't confuse the ability of an LSD to move torque from one output to the other for a change in the native torque split. They are very different things.
Sep 13, 2013, 04:05 PM
#162
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The 2008+ Evo X pump have three outlets, one for the ACD and two for the AYC, with three solenoids. The X's pump shares the same dimensions as the Ralliart, yet the AYC outlets for the Ralliart are not drilled. The Ralliart has only the ACD outlet and one solenoid. According to the reps here, the Evo pump could actually be used for the Ralliart yet it would be very difficult for the Ralliart pump to be used for the Evo X without a bunch of drilling.
A few of us here in the North have decided we need to do something to prevent our pumps from dying on us. Almost half of us 2008+ Ralliart/Evo X owners here have dead pumps and are either planning on rebuilding or are having to purchase a new pump and the cost to us here in Eastern Canada at the dealership is $4,000 installed for a new pump which is absolutely outrageous.
I've been in contact with Chris from Autotorque over the past many months trying to get us a relocation kit for our North American Evos and Ralliarts and they're in the process of doing that...I've given Autotorque all the trunk and external pics of our cars/pumps. Yesterday I got a message from Chris saying that he's having difficulty obtaining the fittings for the X (which will be the same for the Ralliart with the pumps being the same dimensions) and so it will be another few weeks before they can finish making the kits. Chris also asked me how many kits we can confirm. There are only a few of us on our local site here so I'm wondering if others on this or other sites might be interested in possibly a group buy? I've got an awesome mechanic here who is willing to start a side part of his business doing relocation installs for Ralliarts/Evos once we have the kits and the dealership will be bleeding the lines for us if this mechanic is unable to do it but he's very interested in learning the process and doing it himself.
I've spent quite a bit of time taking apart my trunk trying to figure out where the best placement of this pump would be after Chris from Autotorque said that they'd make it for any location we wanted. Initially I thought we might be able to place it beside the washer fluid tank and the negative battery cable to keep it out of the main trunk area, but we are short by a few inches which was upsetting to me knowing that Mitsubishi could have made a smaller washer fluid tank and could have easily placed the pumps for the X there. I searched but couldn't find a smaller washer fluid tank for our X's anywhere, and no one really wanted to move over their negative cable and also be required to go with a slightly smaller battery and then the Ralliart guys also didn't want a block with the pump in their pass-through to the back seat. We also thought about the possibility of moving the pump to the enclosed area just inside the right back panel ahead of the ACD reservoir but after I scoped and measured there was just not enough space and also no place to adhere it to correctly, plus anyone hitting our car in that right rear panel would have immediately damaged an expensive pump. There was no point placing it on the left side of the spare tire so far from the ACD reservoir where the pump would have to work harder with distance, so the only good placement was going to be on the right side of the trunk close beside the ACD reservoir with a few inches away on either end to gain access to the taillight area and to the battery, as is the location placed on Autotorque's website for their Evo 7 relocation pics. Please take a look at their site.
If anyone is interested or has any ideas please let us know.
Iowa, I'm not sure if this is the correct thread for those of us who are interested in this relocation kit or for discussions on ways to save the pumps so if it's not let me know.
Thanks,
Corinne
A few of us here in the North have decided we need to do something to prevent our pumps from dying on us. Almost half of us 2008+ Ralliart/Evo X owners here have dead pumps and are either planning on rebuilding or are having to purchase a new pump and the cost to us here in Eastern Canada at the dealership is $4,000 installed for a new pump which is absolutely outrageous.
I've been in contact with Chris from Autotorque over the past many months trying to get us a relocation kit for our North American Evos and Ralliarts and they're in the process of doing that...I've given Autotorque all the trunk and external pics of our cars/pumps. Yesterday I got a message from Chris saying that he's having difficulty obtaining the fittings for the X (which will be the same for the Ralliart with the pumps being the same dimensions) and so it will be another few weeks before they can finish making the kits. Chris also asked me how many kits we can confirm. There are only a few of us on our local site here so I'm wondering if others on this or other sites might be interested in possibly a group buy? I've got an awesome mechanic here who is willing to start a side part of his business doing relocation installs for Ralliarts/Evos once we have the kits and the dealership will be bleeding the lines for us if this mechanic is unable to do it but he's very interested in learning the process and doing it himself.
I've spent quite a bit of time taking apart my trunk trying to figure out where the best placement of this pump would be after Chris from Autotorque said that they'd make it for any location we wanted. Initially I thought we might be able to place it beside the washer fluid tank and the negative battery cable to keep it out of the main trunk area, but we are short by a few inches which was upsetting to me knowing that Mitsubishi could have made a smaller washer fluid tank and could have easily placed the pumps for the X there. I searched but couldn't find a smaller washer fluid tank for our X's anywhere, and no one really wanted to move over their negative cable and also be required to go with a slightly smaller battery and then the Ralliart guys also didn't want a block with the pump in their pass-through to the back seat. We also thought about the possibility of moving the pump to the enclosed area just inside the right back panel ahead of the ACD reservoir but after I scoped and measured there was just not enough space and also no place to adhere it to correctly, plus anyone hitting our car in that right rear panel would have immediately damaged an expensive pump. There was no point placing it on the left side of the spare tire so far from the ACD reservoir where the pump would have to work harder with distance, so the only good placement was going to be on the right side of the trunk close beside the ACD reservoir with a few inches away on either end to gain access to the taillight area and to the battery, as is the location placed on Autotorque's website for their Evo 7 relocation pics. Please take a look at their site.
If anyone is interested or has any ideas please let us know.
Iowa, I'm not sure if this is the correct thread for those of us who are interested in this relocation kit or for discussions on ways to save the pumps so if it's not let me know.
Thanks,
Corinne
Sep 13, 2013, 04:30 PM
#163
Since I've already posted a link to their site, I'm not going to complain. 
One issue for those who want such a kit is where/how the new lines will join with that to the ACD. I, for one, don't want to either run a flexible line all the way to the transfer case or connect to the original end of the hard-line. Is there a plan for tying into the hardline to the ACD up high above the rear diff? Even if the original line would have to be cut and flared, that would be better (for me, at least) than the other options.
I'm also curious as to why they start with a hard-line through the bottom of the trunk, rather than flexible all the way from the pump to the AYC inlets. If you can ask, I'd love to hear the answer.
One issue for those who want such a kit is where/how the new lines will join with that to the ACD. I, for one, don't want to either run a flexible line all the way to the transfer case or connect to the original end of the hard-line. Is there a plan for tying into the hardline to the ACD up high above the rear diff? Even if the original line would have to be cut and flared, that would be better (for me, at least) than the other options.
I'm also curious as to why they start with a hard-line through the bottom of the trunk, rather than flexible all the way from the pump to the AYC inlets. If you can ask, I'd love to hear the answer.
Sep 13, 2013, 07:07 PM
#165
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Since I've already posted a link to their site, I'm not going to complain.
One issue for those who want such a kit is where/how the new lines will join with that to the ACD. I, for one, don't want to either run a flexible line all the way to the transfer case or connect to the original end of the hard-line. Is there a plan for tying into the hardline to the ACD up high above the rear diff? Even if the original line would have to be cut and flared, that would be better (for me, at least) than the other options.
I'm also curious as to why they start with a hard-line through the bottom of the trunk, rather than flexible all the way from the pump to the AYC inlets. If you can ask, I'd love to hear the answer.
One issue for those who want such a kit is where/how the new lines will join with that to the ACD. I, for one, don't want to either run a flexible line all the way to the transfer case or connect to the original end of the hard-line. Is there a plan for tying into the hardline to the ACD up high above the rear diff? Even if the original line would have to be cut and flared, that would be better (for me, at least) than the other options.
I'm also curious as to why they start with a hard-line through the bottom of the trunk, rather than flexible all the way from the pump to the AYC inlets. If you can ask, I'd love to hear the answer.
I've been working on this pretty much on my own with Chris from Autotorque for quite some time actually since the beginning of spring. I could certainly use your help and any others who'd like to join in who have an understanding of the system and can ask questions and give suggestions that would be useful in relocation and saving our pumps. It's taken me much time to figure out location, the different pumps and finding the people needed that can help us plus get them all the information needed. There's been a learning curve here for me too with difficulty obtaining factual information and especially from dealerships as one even told me that they shouldn't help me as Autotorque was in the business of saving pumps and they were in the process of selling them...that was sort of said as a joke, but there's definitely truth to the statement and in the end that dealership gave me no useful information.
I'm going to pm you Chris' address and if possible I'd also love you to become involved and ask questions so maybe we can get the perfect relocation kit for all of us who need it (which should be just about everyone in the North). I also had the questions you asked and I was asking everyone for opinions on how we should best protect these lines as I'm not wanting ripped off lines either and there were no answers from anyone.
My mechanic I've set up here also mentioned he didn't like the copper hard lines coming out and felt he can "improve" on the design somewhat as well. These lines should not be hanging down and should be protected up as high as possible as you mentioned and that was going to be something adjusted once here if it wasn't beforehand. Maybe we can have Autotorque make it perfect so no one as to improve on anything? Winter's coming and our pumps are going to fail at some point and it's just a matter of when so time isn't on our side.
Last edited by coryl; Sep 13, 2013 at 07:25 PM.