For those of you with ACD pump failures (merged)
Sep 13, 2013, 10:41 PM
#166
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? We have a 3 year 60,000km warranty on the pump here in Canada so that's actually almost 38,000miles to you so the warranties can't be much different? I'd personally go and demand that the dealership do you a favour and at least give you a 1/2 price deal on a new pump or free installation at minimum and especially if you've been a good customer to them (unfortunately it makes a difference)...the reps have that ability to do that for you but you have to stick to your guns and become a bit of a PITA, maybe calling them daily.
I'm wishing you luck. Probably none of us realised that the ACD/AYC pump wouldn't be covered under the 5 year drivetrain warranty when we bought these cars considering the fuel pump is actually even considered under the 5 year....all very interesting in what would have been a possibility of higher failure rate? Fuel pump rare, ACD pump frequent?
Sep 14, 2013, 06:25 AM
#167
First, anyone with a dead or dying pump should add a post here, please: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...e-reports.html
As to relocation, in my mind, there are three issues to consider:
1) damage to the pump - e.g., if you are planning to rally the car, don't put it in a quarter-panel; put in somewhere where it will be protected
2) heat - if you drive or race in a manner that will cause the pump to work, you might want it in a location where it has more air around it for cooling; this argues against, for example, trying to get it to fit right behind the back seat, especially if you plan to put back the plastic panel that separates this area from truck-space
3) noise - the pump does make noise when it's working; so, if this is all being done to a daily-driven car, again you might want to avoid the area right behind the rear seat
The "default" location for those (mostly in Europe) who have already done this is about in the middle, between the well for the spare tire and the area for the battery and washer-fluid tank. It's safe from damage, not where a part of the roll-bar might be added later, had a lot of air around it, and isn't where it will annoy passengers. It also happens to require the shortest hoses for the AYC and is very near a place that the hard-line to the ACD goes.
The main arguments for putting it in the right-rear corner of the trunk are weight-distribution, ease of connecting to the original hard-lines, and keeping the truck tidy. These are not enough for me to go that route. Your priorities might differ.
As to relocation, in my mind, there are three issues to consider:
1) damage to the pump - e.g., if you are planning to rally the car, don't put it in a quarter-panel; put in somewhere where it will be protected
2) heat - if you drive or race in a manner that will cause the pump to work, you might want it in a location where it has more air around it for cooling; this argues against, for example, trying to get it to fit right behind the back seat, especially if you plan to put back the plastic panel that separates this area from truck-space
3) noise - the pump does make noise when it's working; so, if this is all being done to a daily-driven car, again you might want to avoid the area right behind the rear seat
The "default" location for those (mostly in Europe) who have already done this is about in the middle, between the well for the spare tire and the area for the battery and washer-fluid tank. It's safe from damage, not where a part of the roll-bar might be added later, had a lot of air around it, and isn't where it will annoy passengers. It also happens to require the shortest hoses for the AYC and is very near a place that the hard-line to the ACD goes.
The main arguments for putting it in the right-rear corner of the trunk are weight-distribution, ease of connecting to the original hard-lines, and keeping the truck tidy. These are not enough for me to go that route. Your priorities might differ.
Last edited by Iowa999; Sep 14, 2013 at 06:27 AM.
Sep 14, 2013, 07:09 AM
#168
Evolving Member
I have found the past couple of nights it has been cooler, and my pump wouldn't pull a code, has anyone else experienced this that it only dies in hotter weather?
Sep 14, 2013, 07:31 AM
#169
Mine died as it warmed up (outside) this spring.
The idea that what kills these pumps is cold, thick fluid comes from Mitsu. That's why they ordered a reflash to delay the start of the pump in cold weather. We now know that it's corrosion that kills the pumps in most cases. If your pump is less happy when it's hot out, there's an extremely good chance it is dying of the typical cause. Heat causes a small expansion of the metal parts, opening the gap between plate and body that prevents the pump from achieving pressure.
The idea that what kills these pumps is cold, thick fluid comes from Mitsu. That's why they ordered a reflash to delay the start of the pump in cold weather. We now know that it's corrosion that kills the pumps in most cases. If your pump is less happy when it's hot out, there's an extremely good chance it is dying of the typical cause. Heat causes a small expansion of the metal parts, opening the gap between plate and body that prevents the pump from achieving pressure.
Sep 14, 2013, 08:45 AM
#170
Evolving Member
Mine died as it warmed up (outside) this spring.
The idea that what kills these pumps is cold, thick fluid comes from Mitsu. That's why they ordered a reflash to delay the start of the pump in cold weather. We now know that it's corrosion that kills the pumps in most cases. If your pump is less happy when it's hot out, there's an extremely good chance it is dying of the typical cause. Heat causes a small expansion of the metal parts, opening the gap between plate and body that prevents the pump from achieving pressure.
The idea that what kills these pumps is cold, thick fluid comes from Mitsu. That's why they ordered a reflash to delay the start of the pump in cold weather. We now know that it's corrosion that kills the pumps in most cases. If your pump is less happy when it's hot out, there's an extremely good chance it is dying of the typical cause. Heat causes a small expansion of the metal parts, opening the gap between plate and body that prevents the pump from achieving pressure.
Sep 14, 2013, 08:54 AM
#171
I was back a step and, so, by "typical cause" I meant a separation between the plate and body (due to corrosion) that causes the pump to be incapable of achieving pressure. Whether the motor then dies as well is another issue (to me).
Last edited by Iowa999; Sep 14, 2013 at 05:09 PM.
Sep 14, 2013, 09:44 AM
#172
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Please, please do everyone a favor and fill out a complaint form on the NHTSA website.
There are only a handful right now but I am sure there are a lot more unhappy EVO and Ralliart owners who are screwed by Mitsubishi.
www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints
There are only a handful right now but I am sure there are a lot more unhappy EVO and Ralliart owners who are screwed by Mitsubishi.
www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints
Sep 14, 2013, 03:21 PM
#173
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First, anyone with a dead or dying pump should add a post here, please: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...e-reports.html
As to relocation, in my mind, there are three issues to consider:
1) damage to the pump - e.g., if you are planning to rally the car, don't put it in a quarter-panel; put in somewhere where it will be protected
2) heat - if you drive or race in a manner that will cause the pump to work, you might want it in a location where it has more air around it for cooling; this argues against, for example, trying to get it to fit right behind the back seat, especially if you plan to put back the plastic panel that separates this area from truck-space
3) noise - the pump does make noise when it's working; so, if this is all being done to a daily-driven car, again you might want to avoid the area right behind the rear seat
The "default" location for those (mostly in Europe) who have already done this is about in the middle, between the well for the spare tire and the area for the battery and washer-fluid tank. It's safe from damage, not where a part of the roll-bar might be added later, had a lot of air around it, and isn't where it will annoy passengers. It also happens to require the shortest hoses for the AYC and is very near a place that the hard-line to the ACD goes.
The main arguments for putting it in the right-rear corner of the trunk are weight-distribution, ease of connecting to the original hard-lines, and keeping the truck tidy. These are not enough for me to go that route. Your priorities might differ.
As to relocation, in my mind, there are three issues to consider:
1) damage to the pump - e.g., if you are planning to rally the car, don't put it in a quarter-panel; put in somewhere where it will be protected
2) heat - if you drive or race in a manner that will cause the pump to work, you might want it in a location where it has more air around it for cooling; this argues against, for example, trying to get it to fit right behind the back seat, especially if you plan to put back the plastic panel that separates this area from truck-space
3) noise - the pump does make noise when it's working; so, if this is all being done to a daily-driven car, again you might want to avoid the area right behind the rear seat
The "default" location for those (mostly in Europe) who have already done this is about in the middle, between the well for the spare tire and the area for the battery and washer-fluid tank. It's safe from damage, not where a part of the roll-bar might be added later, had a lot of air around it, and isn't where it will annoy passengers. It also happens to require the shortest hoses for the AYC and is very near a place that the hard-line to the ACD goes.
The main arguments for putting it in the right-rear corner of the trunk are weight-distribution, ease of connecting to the original hard-lines, and keeping the truck tidy. These are not enough for me to go that route. Your priorities might differ.
Noise level of the pump is very small running for minimal times until the pressure is reached...people talking, a Titek Ti dual exhaust
, music, engine noise, back seat barrier, etc, would do the trick so I'm not sure that noise should be the biggest deciding factor on placement.What is the deciding factor for me is ease of placement and safety of the pump and protecting the lines...looking at the existing outlet lines on the car from the pump they aren't protected at all either and can be damaged easily, and IMO having the flexibility to lift lines to the highest area possible underneath the car would be a plus.
What is impossible to do...
1)-We can't fit the pump into that rear right quarter panel there's not enough room on the X and I'm sure it's worse on the Ralliarts...the right wheel area and slope of the outer panel on the X has a decreasing width and length. I've scoped and measured it plus there's no good area to adhere it to even if it did fit.
2)-Can't fit the pump into the area between the washer fluid tank and battery behind the barrier as there's not enough room between them by just a few short inches. In front of the protective cover just in front of the spare doesn't give enough space there either as the pump would have to overhang the spare which isn't good if the spare moves during driving bumping the pump and lines or even to get the spare out. Putting it in the spare tire area removes your ability to carry a spare tire unless you keep it in the back seat which isn't a nice idea either for us daily drivers.
The only space I can figure will be good is in the right side of the trunk. It's the best place for protection being quite far inside from all angles with air current enough to keep it cool. If something hits that panel you will have a ton of fluid entering your trunk from the reservoir already from Mitsu's initial design...protect your right rear side panel if someone goes to hit you I say.
You mention that the Europeans relocate by default in front of the spare tire well area...I can't find pics/info of previous X relocations, do you know where I could find them? I've placed my spare pump to that area and it makes no sense they could do that for reasons I already explained unless their trunks are designed differently. European X's also I believe have a larger washer fluid reservoir so there's no way it can fit in front or between if their trunks are the same as ours.
I'd like to post pics of my trunk with my spare pump in areas in it to show you what we're dealing with, but I'm not sure how to do it on this site. Can anyone help with this?
I will be relocating because I've got better things to do with $4 Grand every few years. I'd like to explore the possibility of having the flexible lines coming directly from the outlets...I'll speak with Chris about this and let you know. Thanks for the suggestions and help.
Last edited by coryl; Sep 14, 2013 at 03:36 PM.
Sep 14, 2013, 05:18 PM
#174
There are pictures of a pump that has been relocated towards the right side, as you suggested, on AutoTorque's website: http://www.autotorque.net/services/a...relocation-40/
That might be where I end up putting mine. It would be more safe if it were more towards the center, but if I have a crash that would get to the location in those pictures, a damaged pump would be a small part of my problems.
I know that other people (all rallyists) have put their pump closer to the center, but I have no pics. It was all in conversation. I can ask Blaze (PPD Motorsports) where Viorel Dobasu's pump is now located; we can also ask Antoine L'Estage where his was moved to. Those are the two Evo Xs that I know of that are competing in North America.
That might be where I end up putting mine. It would be more safe if it were more towards the center, but if I have a crash that would get to the location in those pictures, a damaged pump would be a small part of my problems.
I know that other people (all rallyists) have put their pump closer to the center, but I have no pics. It was all in conversation. I can ask Blaze (PPD Motorsports) where Viorel Dobasu's pump is now located; we can also ask Antoine L'Estage where his was moved to. Those are the two Evo Xs that I know of that are competing in North America.
Sep 14, 2013, 06:41 PM
#175
Evolved Member
Update: My son's AYC pump is shot. Worst corrosion I have ever seen. Solenoids shot as well. Can't be rebuilt. Needs a new pump. We have the ACD kit and will have it rebuilt using it. We will also build a protective shield and coat the pump with anti corrosion paint. This, just after 2 years of use and about 23k miles. And, to think that Mitsubishi says the pump went out because of a "tune".
Sep 14, 2013, 09:43 PM
#176
That stinks.
Maybe join us in the relocation party, just to be safe?
ps. if you find a new pump for under $1450, please share the source; that's the lowest I know of
alternatively: Yo! Site-sponsoring vendors! We want a group buy!
edit: here was my pump:
Maybe join us in the relocation party, just to be safe?
ps. if you find a new pump for under $1450, please share the source; that's the lowest I know of
alternatively: Yo! Site-sponsoring vendors! We want a group buy!
edit: here was my pump:
Sep 15, 2013, 08:09 AM
#177
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This is rediculous, guys and girls! A relocation kit is great for enthusiasts like us, but what about someone that just wants to drive their car and not have worry about spending extra money to avoid an inevitable failure. Mitsubishi knows what's going on here. I filed a complaint with the NHTSA. I suggest you do the same if you want to get your voices heard. We are up to 14 pages now as of Sept.15 about this issue. Say something!
Sep 15, 2013, 10:29 AM
#178
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There are pictures of a pump that has been relocated towards the right side, as you suggested, on AutoTorque's website: http://www.autotorque.net/services/a...relocation-40/
That might be where I end up putting mine. It would be more safe if it were more towards the center, but if I have a crash that would get to the location in those pictures, a damaged pump would be a small part of my problems.
I know that other people (all rallyists) have put their pump closer to the center, but I have no pics. It was all in conversation. I can ask Blaze (PPD Motorsports) where Viorel Dobasu's pump is now located; we can also ask Antoine L'Estage where his was moved to. Those are the two Evo Xs that I know of that are competing in North America.
That might be where I end up putting mine. It would be more safe if it were more towards the center, but if I have a crash that would get to the location in those pictures, a damaged pump would be a small part of my problems.
I know that other people (all rallyists) have put their pump closer to the center, but I have no pics. It was all in conversation. I can ask Blaze (PPD Motorsports) where Viorel Dobasu's pump is now located; we can also ask Antoine L'Estage where his was moved to. Those are the two Evo Xs that I know of that are competing in North America.
That would be great if you asked Blaze and Antoine I'd be interested on their placement for sure although if they haven't put it in the right side they've definitely decreased their battery size or removed their washer tank or spare tire...no other options Imo. I'm not willing to do those things, but since they're serious rallyists they would be.
Sep 15, 2013, 10:38 AM
#179
I will ask them, but keep in mind that Viorel and Antoine both run in Open, so neither of them have AYC any more. All they have is ACD. Same goes for Rob Martai (who is on this site often). This doesn't change anything with regard to the size of the pump, but if you don't have AYC (and don't have a back seat, either), then you might move the pump a lot further forward.
A bit OT, but one reason that I haven't moved more quickly on this is that I'm waiting for an answer from Rally America as to whether we can or must keep the AYC in Super Production. For all I know, the few minutes before my pump truly died were the last few minutes of my having an active rear with AYC. Why, exactly, I bought an X instead of a 9 is bit beyond me right now.
A bit OT, but one reason that I haven't moved more quickly on this is that I'm waiting for an answer from Rally America as to whether we can or must keep the AYC in Super Production. For all I know, the few minutes before my pump truly died were the last few minutes of my having an active rear with AYC. Why, exactly, I bought an X instead of a 9 is bit beyond me right now.
Sep 15, 2013, 10:54 AM
#180
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This is rediculous, guys and girls! A relocation kit is great for enthusiasts like us, but what about someone that just wants to drive their car and not have worry about spending extra money to avoid an inevitable failure. Mitsubishi knows what's going on here. I filed a complaint with the NHTSA. I suggest you do the same if you want to get your voices heard. We are up to 14 pages now as of Sept.15 about this issue. Say something!
One dealership told me that we drive winter garage queens and reminded me, you wouldn't drive an exotic Lambo in winter so it's the same with this car. Unfortunately this is going to leave us with relocation as the only option if we want to drive these cars in winter and keep them protected unless we want to spend big bucks every few years.